Author Topic: History buffs; A Project  (Read 1205 times)

Offline OOZ662

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History buffs; A Project
« on: February 27, 2006, 01:14:55 PM »
I hoping some of you history guys with the big ol' stacks of books can help with this one. :D I need info about technology and general war stuff to put into a Flash project.

First off, I'm making everything fit into three eras, one set for the Allies and one set for the Axis; Early, Mid, and Late war. For each of these eras, I'd need info on major new aircraft and tank technology for the period.
-Example: (For the Axis) Germans invent the Panzer IV, which has _____ advantages over earlier tanks.-

Secondly, there will be a general history of the war. I'm guessing that the best thing for this section would be major troop movements, areas captured, cities destroyed, ect.

The project is a small one, so I don't need a summary of the war or a breakdown of every plane and it's advantages, just things that changed the way things worked and influenced the war.

Many thanks for your help. :aok
A Rook who first flew 09/26/03 at the age of 13, has been a GL in 10+ Scenarios, and was two-time Points and First Annual 68KO Cup winner of the AH Extreme Air Racing League.

Offline EagleEyes

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« Reply #1 on: February 27, 2006, 08:39:32 PM »
Google it OOZ!! lol.....ill keep my eyes open and see if i can find any of my books!
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Offline OOZ662

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« Reply #2 on: February 27, 2006, 09:16:52 PM »
Problem with Google is the innacuracies that I hate so much. And the fact that there are so many websites made for games and/or by 9 year olds...
A Rook who first flew 09/26/03 at the age of 13, has been a GL in 10+ Scenarios, and was two-time Points and First Annual 68KO Cup winner of the AH Extreme Air Racing League.

Offline Squire

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« Reply #3 on: February 27, 2006, 09:26:47 PM »
You are going to need to  be a lot clearer on what you are looking for, because your post is incredibly vague. Three eras, you need info, ugh huh?

"The project is a small one"

Hardly, and I think you under estimate the ammount of research and info you will need to go through.

May I suggest a "WW2 Atlas" there are several good ones you can order in the $25 range, and they sum up the war in chapters. Anything more specific than that, you are in for a lot of digging.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2006, 09:29:30 PM by Squire »
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Offline OOZ662

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« Reply #4 on: February 27, 2006, 09:55:40 PM »
Well, I meant small in that each era only needs about 30 seconds of info. I've already found a bunch on my own from playing this game for two and a half years; I'm just looking for revolutionary technologies that sprung up during the war, such as combat flaps, jet engines, and the sort.

If you don't feel like providing huge amounts of info, a list of extraordinary technologies would be great so that I can go research them on my own.

And sorry for the vauge-ness, I was typing it in class every time the teacher looked away. :D
A Rook who first flew 09/26/03 at the age of 13, has been a GL in 10+ Scenarios, and was two-time Points and First Annual 68KO Cup winner of the AH Extreme Air Racing League.

Offline zorstorer

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« Reply #5 on: February 27, 2006, 11:48:54 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by OOZ662
...I was typing it in class every time the teacher looked away. :D



Is this what our tax dollars are paying for??  ;)

Offline SMIDSY

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« Reply #6 on: February 27, 2006, 11:48:54 PM »
hope this helps...

At the outbreak of hostilities between Germany and Poland, the Whermarch (i know i cant spell, shut up) had no particular quantity or quality advantage in tanks or infantry. However, their tactical doctrine was the most advanced in the world at the time. The German Army relied on mission objectives rather than master plans, allowing for lower-level comanders to take the initiative and achieve the objective however they saw fit. In addition to this, even the earliest Panzers built under the Nazi regime were all equipped with radios, allowing for fluid coordination in the field. This made up for the German's lack of good tanks. Even durring the invasion of France, most Panzers were armed with 20mm cannon and were poorly armored whereas those of the French and British armies were armed to the teeth and very strongly armored. But the advanced tactical and stratiegic doctrine of the new German Army won against all odds.



this is a Pz. II, the most numerous german tank at the beginning of the war. it is armed with a 20mm automatic cannon and a 7.92mm machinegun. its maximum armor is about .45 inches thick.



 
this is a Char-Leger H-39 french medium tank. it was armed with a high-velocity 37mm pourpose-built AT gun. its' maximum armor is 1.57 inches.




unlike the allied armies, the germans had no heavy tanks at the beginning of the war, nor would they untill 1942 with the introduction of the Tiger.

this is a captured Renault Schneider B-1. it is armed with a 75mm howitzer in the front hull and a 47mm AT gun in the turret. its' maximum armor is 2.4 inches thick.


this is the A12 Infantry Tank Mk II Matilda II. it is armed with a 40mm AT cannon. its' maximum armor is 3.07 inches thick. it was nearly indestructable untill the germans fielded the Pz. IV equipped with a long-barreled 75mm cannon.

Offline straffo

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« Reply #7 on: February 28, 2006, 02:19:46 AM »
SMIDSY look up  the Somua S35

Offline SMIDSY

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« Reply #8 on: February 28, 2006, 02:29:29 AM »
i chose to focus on the H-39 because the S-35 completely outclassed anything the germans could field, and thus could not be compared to the german light tanks. also, i just like the Hotchkiss:aok

Offline OOZ662

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« Reply #9 on: February 28, 2006, 12:51:38 PM »
Wow; exactly if not more than I was looking for for the early tanks. Thanks! :aok :D
A Rook who first flew 09/26/03 at the age of 13, has been a GL in 10+ Scenarios, and was two-time Points and First Annual 68KO Cup winner of the AH Extreme Air Racing League.

Offline E25280

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« Reply #10 on: March 03, 2006, 11:35:24 PM »
Have a bit of time, so I'll take a stab at another entry . . .

Smidsy does a good job with the early armor.  Only 2 points to add.   First is that the French tanks did have one fairly major flaw . . . they almost all relied on a one man turret.  So, the tank commander was also the loader and the gunner.  Second is that the Germans also sported PzkwIIIs and Pzkw 38(t)s that had 37 mm guns, and an early version of the PzkwIV (C version IIRC) that had a low velocity 75mm howitzer.

"Mid war", which I would take to mean 41-43, saw the invasion of the Soviet Union.  The Germans by then had begun to upgrade the old chassis.  Many PzkwIIIs were up-gunned to a 50mm gun, but the armor faced the same obsticles it did in France.  Many Russian tanks were "light tanks" that were dealt with fairly easily.  But the Russians also had many "heavy tanks", such as the KV-Is, whose armor was too strong for the German weaponry.  The KVs carried a 76mm gun that was more than capable of killing the German tanks.  But, also like the Western Front, the Russians did not have many radios, and generally relied on a command tank giving signals to the other tanks.  (oddly, this situation lasted even to the end of the war -- even in 1945 the Germans were often able to stop a Soviet armored attack by identifying and killing the command tank.  The Russians simply never adapted)

Enter the first T-34.  The field test of the first T-34 was to send it against the German front.  It litterally drove several miles behind German lines, simply trashing everything in its way.  The 37mm and 50mm guns couldn't stop it -- the angled armor (absent on the German tanks) made the small caliber rounds bounce into the air rather then penetrate the armor.  It was finally destroyed by a towed 88mm AA gun.

The inferiority of the German tanks shocked them into producing the Tiger.  It sported the 88mm gun and enough armor to withstand the t-34's 76mm gun.  The Germans also once again up-gunned and up-armored the PzkwIIIs (higher velocity 50mm) and PzkwIV (with a 75mm gun instead of the howitzer, the "F" version).  Now the Germans had armor that met or surpassed the quality of the Russian tanks.  Despite its superiority, however, the Tiger is mostly a larger, heavier PzkwIV in terms of hull design.  It was not until the Pzkw V "Panther" tank was introduced in 1943 do you see German armor adopt some of the sloped armor found on the T-34.  The Panther also mounted a VERY high velocity 75mm gun whose armor penetrating power rivaled the 88mm gun on the Tiger.

One more development in the Mid-war period was that the Germans found their production capacity wanting vs what they were facing in North Africa and Russia.  To speed production along, they began producing in increasing numbers "turretless tanks."  Without the rotating turret, these vehicles were simpler and cheaper to produce.  They also tended to benefit from lower profiles and thicker armor in the front to support the gun.  The "Sturmgeschutz", or assault guns, began with 75mm howitzers and a few with 105mm howitzers.  The StuGIII, like the PzkwIV, was slowly upgraded throughout this period as Russian armor became more of a problem.  The Germans also began development of "Panzer Jaeger" assault guns, which were stop-gap mobile AT guns on lightly armored chassis.  Ultimatly the Jagdpnzrs came into being, which sported the high velocity AT guns, but in a very heavily armored chassis beginning with the Elefant in '43 IIRC.

Sorry, no pictures.  But to recap . . . Mid war East Front, German armor begins still inferior, but superior tactics win again.  Germans begin upgrading existing chassis, create first true heavy German tanks.  Russians essentially find one chassis/design that works well (T-34) and begin producing it in unfathomable numbers.  T-34 introduces highly sloped armor to tank design.  Germans begin to produce more turretless tanks in an attempt to increase overall armored numbers.

Hope this helps.
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Offline SMIDSY

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« Reply #11 on: March 04, 2006, 10:57:54 AM »
the PzkwIIIs were available in pathetically small numbers at the outset of hostilities with france. same for the IV. also, the 75mm gun had such a low velocity it could not penatrate most allied medium and infantry tanks. yes it sounds big, but it was used only to support infantry. similar to the use of the 75mm gun on the sherman in late war battles.

Offline E25280

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« Reply #12 on: March 04, 2006, 09:07:42 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by SMIDSY
the PzkwIIIs were available in pathetically small numbers at the outset of hostilities with france. same for the IV. also, the 75mm gun had such a low velocity it could not penatrate most allied medium and infantry tanks. yes it sounds big, but it was used only to support infantry. similar to the use of the 75mm gun on the sherman in late war battles.


Meant to put "a few" in there before the Pzkw IV -- thanks for catching it.  But I did clearly mention it was a low velocity howitzer.  Found the following on the internet which should shed some light on actual numbers.  

Quote
Some German Pzkw inventory figures

I have some copies from the Geschichte des zweiten Weltkrieges book that I made at the Johns Hopkins Library, right before I left Maryland. There is a table from page 124 that gives artillery and tank inventory numbers for 1 September 1939 (at the start of the war), 1 April 1940 (before the attack in May), and 20 June 1941 (right before the invasion of Russia). These are the tank inventory numbers:

______________'39______'40_______'41
Pzkw I:______1,445,____1,045,_____889
Pzkw 35(t):______--,_____163,_____203
Pzkw II:______1,228,____1,095,___1,197
Pzkw 38(t):______--,_____256,_____801
Pzkw III:_______101,_____388,____1,565
Pzkw IV:_______213,_____148,_____358

In some ways, the numbers of Pzkw I's in service in 1941 is surprisingly high. By 1941, though, it has fallen to third place in the inventory. The Pzkw III had become the most used tank. In 1940, it was the Pzkw II, with the Pzkw I a close second.


The 35(t) and 38(t) are Czech-built tanks that had the 37mm gun, as did the PzkwIIIs.  The 37mm AT gun in the towed version was the standard German AT gun at the time.  Regardless, to Smidsy's point, it had little chance against the heavier French and British tanks of the day unless firing on the side or rear from very close range.

By the way (I don't see it mentioned yet), the PzkwI was a small (6 ton) tankette with a two man crew and only two machine guns in the turret for armament.
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Offline SMIDSY

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« Reply #13 on: March 05, 2006, 05:27:59 PM »
particularly the french tanks which were equipped with the 47mm gun which was considered the best tank gun of the time.

Offline OOZ662

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« Reply #14 on: March 06, 2006, 02:17:53 PM »
Couldn't do this without you guys; especialy for tanks. :aok :D
A Rook who first flew 09/26/03 at the age of 13, has been a GL in 10+ Scenarios, and was two-time Points and First Annual 68KO Cup winner of the AH Extreme Air Racing League.