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Author Topic: The Brewster....  (Read 1500 times)

Offline Krusty

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The Brewster....
« Reply #30 on: February 22, 2006, 11:16:30 PM »
Wmaker, if I make you speechless, that's your problem :)

I don't care WHICH plane is the best. You said it, some side will always have the best plane. But there's a difference between the best plane being a spit14 in a 1941 BOB setup and a spit1 in a 1941 BOB setup.

Sure, there will always be a best plane. No arguments there.

Yes, the old setup (non-RPS) had Hurr1s, but the Hurr1s weren't flown by 95% of all players on that team, scoring 80% of all kills for that team :cool:

There's a difference with rolling plane sets and just plain old scenarios. No, don't blow a gasket because I say this: Sometimes things have to be balanced. In a full rps you have to take into consideration how it's going to play out. In a plain 1-off setup you don't have to worry as much because the other planes will carry the setup.

I'm not saying anything other than the following:

- Hurr2 is overpoweredin Fin/Rus, big time.
- FM2 has no real place in Fin/Rus in general.
- I'm all for the Brewster, because nothing else subs for it, but I think folks will not use it once they realize how bad it flies.

I'm not saying anything like the following:

- I'm against rolling plane sets.
- I'm against substituting planes for other planes.
- I hate what you've done this setup.

So, basically, I'm not sure why you're speechless. I'm just having fun with a discussion on aircraft in the AvA.

Cheers :aok
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Offline TimRas

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Re: The Brewster....
« Reply #31 on: February 23, 2006, 12:12:14 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Krusty

P40B: Normal loaded weight: 7,352 lbs. (AH2 stats page)
Brewster: F2A-3 max takeoff: 7,159lbs. (closest version I could find, subtract a few hundred lbs for armor to get an idea of weight)


You have to subtract quite a lot, typical take-off weight 2415kg (5320 lb) with 300kg (660 lbs) of fuel. Source and more info:
http://hkkk.fi/~yrjola/war/faf/brewster.html
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Offline hogenbor

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The Brewster....
« Reply #32 on: February 23, 2006, 04:50:10 AM »
Correct modelling aside, it still is beyond all comprehension what the Finns did with rejected, obsolete, underpowered fighters with refurbished DC-3 engines.

In all other conflicts Brewsters were massacred (apparently, I din't really do the research). The Finns also were massivly outnumbered. Still the Brewster B-239 has the best K/D of ALL fighters in WWII.

In the face of all that, exactly how good was the Finnish Brewster? I would like to know.

As for the 'subbing' argument, please all shut up and enjoy the scenario.
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Offline Charge

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The Brewster....
« Reply #33 on: February 23, 2006, 06:56:37 AM »
"In the face of all that, exactly how good was the Finnish Brewster? I would like to know."

41 aerial victories were achieved with BW-393,
36 aerial victories achieved with BW-364.

Note: By only those two planes.

Note2: They were Navy planes to begin with and much of that equipment was removed so the power to weight and wingloading were very good despite the weaker engine.

Even with Brewster it was not advisable to combat I-16s but to use "pendulum" tactics.


http://www.virtualpilots.fi/hist/WW2History-CaptainWindsAirCombatTacticsLecture.html

-C+
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Offline Shifty

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The Brewster....
« Reply #34 on: February 23, 2006, 07:00:26 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Wmaker
Yep,

About the "finns-thing"...I made the comment based on several threads on this forum on a longer period (and the implication to "not just this post" is pretty clearly evident IMO). Just remember how you answered to Blauk...how for finns it's about winning and so on...

EDIT

I see your point, on that post. I did mention the Finns refering to the FM2 as a sub.  So I do offer an apology. It wasn't posted to imply you guys were doing something evil. It  was  meant to be an example to the poor LW dribble thats been going around this board. I got caught up in the fun. My comments about winning have nothing to do with anybody. This game rarely plays out like the actual war. You can't expect it to and or you will be pissed all the time. Your English is fine. My Finnish sux.:aok


 I think Bugs got it right. Just fly and try to have fun. Squelching 200 helps, maybe I should stay outta here too.:D
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Offline BlauK

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The Brewster....
« Reply #35 on: February 23, 2006, 11:37:46 AM »
Some Brewster links:

 http://www.warbirdforum.com/buff.htm
-- http://www.warbirdforum.com/faf.htm


Captain Hans Wind's lecture... among others about enemy planes.
He bases his experience and comments on flying with Brewster... check what he thinks of Hurricanes ;)
Wind's lecture - enemy planes part
A bit higher on teh same page below "Solo Fighting":
"The easiest one to shoot down of the enemy fighters is the Hurricane. It is totally helpless against us below 3,000 meters. It is slow and very clumsy and unmanoeuvrable. Whenever you meet a Hurricane, engage it in a turn-fight, where it is totally at our mercy. It is best to shoot this plane in the forward part of the fuselage when it almost immediately bursts into flames."  ;)


Brewsters to Finland


An article  beginning with.. "Quite possibly the best Air Force of the Second World War..."
« Last Edit: February 23, 2006, 11:48:31 AM by BlauK »
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Offline Grits

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The Brewster....
« Reply #36 on: February 23, 2006, 11:51:10 AM »
My problem isnt the Brewster/FM-2 substitution as much as the other more close matches that we dont get to use as a sub. The 110c as a sub for the Ki45 is the one that comes to mind first. The 110c is the FAR better sub for the Ki45 than the FM-2 is for the Brewster, it has been requested, and only on very rare occasions has it been done. The reason has usually been "we dont like substitutions" or "its not close enough", yet we have the FM-2/Brewster which everyone admits is a poor sub, hell its flying as Axis and its an Allied plane. You could even make (IMO) a better argument for the 190A-5 for the Ki44 than the FM-2/Brewster, but we would never see that one.

I'm not saying remove the FM-2 as it does play well against the Hurri IIc, I guess I'm wondering why we sub the FM-2 for the Brewster but dont do other more accurate substitutions.
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storch

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The Brewster....
« Reply #37 on: February 23, 2006, 12:42:46 PM »
perhaps HTC will eventually model gladiators, CR42s, brewsters, bells, curtiss hawks, moscas and ratas.  they would play great on this map and hopefully on the upcoming Med/NAfrica map.
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Offline Charge

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The Brewster....
« Reply #38 on: February 23, 2006, 03:05:26 PM »
I'd love to fly CRs or Curtisses or P39s.

-C+

PS. "The easiest one to shoot down of the enemy fighters is the Hurricane"

Pekuri's Brewster was allegedly shot down by a Hurricane so it was not totally helpless ;)
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"When you wish upon a falling star, your dreams can come true. Unless it's really a giant meteor hurtling to the earth which will destroy all life. Then you're pretty much screwed no matter what you wish for. Unless of course, it's death by meteorite."

Offline AutoPilot

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The Brewster....
« Reply #39 on: February 23, 2006, 03:53:37 PM »
Quote
Hurricane 2C subs Hurricane IIB and IIA and is a good match for the FM-2


I went in there today to try out this RPS.All i ran into was enemy Hurri-2's Ho'ing every chance they got.That crap is so funny,like you cannot out manuver someone in a Hurri-2.The only person i saw who was playing 1/2 way decent was Oldman.<<>> Oldman in your p-40
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Offline Jester

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The Brewster....
« Reply #40 on: February 23, 2006, 04:01:47 PM »
Hey Finns,

Question on the Brewster 239:

Weren't a few of them re-engined with engines out of DC-2's or DC-3's?
Thought I remember reading that somewhere.


Also as to Storch's post - would LOVE to fly a Gladiator against Italian CR's in a early war Med scenario or a Curtiss Hawk III against Japanese KI-10 PERRY's in an Early China-War scenario. One can only hope HTC will get there one day.
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Offline Krusty

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The Brewster....
« Reply #41 on: February 23, 2006, 08:30:29 PM »
Jester, don't hate me for saying this... but....

Two weeks...

:cool:
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Offline Airscrew

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The Brewster....
« Reply #42 on: February 23, 2006, 11:29:46 PM »
Hey Krusty,   I'll raise ya 38.6% ;)
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Offline mora

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The Brewster....
« Reply #43 on: February 27, 2006, 04:32:36 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Jester
Weren't a few of them re-engined with engines out of DC-2's or DC-3's?
Thought I remember reading that somewhere.

They were all equipped with DC-3 engines.
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