Author Topic: South Florida Police Departments  (Read 502 times)

Offline eskimo2

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7207
      • hallbuzz.com
South Florida Police Departments
« on: March 01, 2006, 05:14:27 PM »
Check out this police intimidation story (you might have to scroll down for article and video, top of page is blank).

http://cbs4.com/topstories/local_story_033170755.html

eskimo

Offline fartwinkle

  • Parolee
  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 551
South Florida Police Departments
« Reply #1 on: March 01, 2006, 05:40:45 PM »
Wrong on so many levels.

storch

  • Guest
South Florida Police Departments
« Reply #2 on: March 01, 2006, 06:17:27 PM »
firstly I'll explain that I am and always will be on the side of law and order.  I consider all police officers my friends and treat them all as such.  I have never had a problem with any law enforcement personnel even after being involved in bar brawls where everyone except me was arrested (long time ago, when I was in my 20's).  I routinely talk my way out of traffic citations even when I'm pulled over by FHP and in my town where my vehicles are known I would have to injure someone before I got in trouble. I never ever ever get written up.  Recently my daughter was pulled over for a minor traffic violation in Miami-Dade County.  the arresting officer came at her with weapon drawn.  it scared her to death, had it not been for the intervention of local citizens yelling at the officer that it was a girl and to put his weapon away who knows what may have occurred.  when my daughter called and told me what had transpired, knowing fully well what MDCPD complaint proceedures are due to the many police officers that we provide service to I called my county commissioner and had them assist in filing the complaint. even so we never received any satisfaction with regards to the incident.  when I inquired about the occurance with other officers that I know it was explained that there was a BOLO out for a car matching my daughter's vehicle's description in connection with a recent bank robbery but that the officer in question was a bit of a gung ho noob and that it was good there were citizens around at the time of the incident.

Offline Gunthr

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3043
      • http://www.dot.squat
South Florida Police Departments
« Reply #3 on: March 01, 2006, 06:43:33 PM »
I'm proud to say that my agency was not part of the hokie conduct and the faulty procedures that were such an embarrassment to law enforcement in this report.  Most of them are smaller agencies.  The investigative reporters no doubt came to us and asked for a form and got one immediately.

My police department has had I.A./Professional Standards Complaint forms for years.  Anyone can ask for them, and we will even mail them to you.   All enlightened law enforcement agencies know that if you don't discipline, your agency starts slipping...
"When I speak I put on a mask. When I act, I am forced to take it off."  - Helvetius 18th Century

Offline eskimo2

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7207
      • hallbuzz.com
South Florida Police Departments
« Reply #4 on: March 01, 2006, 07:02:04 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Gunthr
I'm proud to say that my agency was not part of the hokie conduct and the faulty procedures that were such an embarrassment to law enforcement in this report.  Most of them are smaller agencies.  The investigative reporters no doubt came to us and asked for a form and got one immediately.

My police department has had I.A./Professional Standards Complaint forms for years.  Anyone can ask for them, and we will even mail them to you.   All enlightened law enforcement agencies know that if you don't discipline, your agency starts slipping...


WTG on professionalism.

eskimo

Offline T0J0

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1056
South Florida Police Departments
« Reply #5 on: March 01, 2006, 08:43:31 PM »
Thats kids stuff, Its much worse.... In so many ways....

TJ

Offline Maverick

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 13958
South Florida Police Departments
« Reply #6 on: March 01, 2006, 09:43:34 PM »
My agency has a form but I don't personally recall seeing anyone ever using it. When I was on desk duty (because of light duty restrictions from injuries) I saw several folks come in the front desk area and litterally demand to file a complaint. During the day time IA always had someone on duty to start the investigation. At night the IA office was closed and a supervisor started the process. If there was a problem involving any employee they definately wanted to start the complaint process as soon as possible.

This clip was a nicely edited piece of work. A good example of how to load a situation and some individuals that were real quick to bite on it. The following, agueing and some other tactics were definately wrong. It's interesting to see some of the diffeerences between operations of Eastern PD's and the Western ones I am familiar with.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2006, 09:46:54 PM by Maverick »
DEFINITION OF A VETERAN
A Veteran - whether active duty, retired, national guard or reserve - is someone who, at one point in their life, wrote a check made payable to "The United States of America", for an amount of "up to and including my life."
Author Unknown

Offline Gunslinger

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 10084
South Florida Police Departments
« Reply #7 on: March 01, 2006, 10:04:43 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Maverick
My agency has a form but I don't personally recall seeing anyone ever using it. When I was on desk duty (because of light duty restrictions from injuries) I saw several folks come in the front desk area and litterally demand to file a complaint. During the day time IA always had someone on duty to start the investigation. At night the IA office was closed and a supervisor started the process. If there was a problem involving any employee they definately wanted to start the complaint process as soon as possible.

This clip was a nicely edited piece of work. A good example of how to load a situation and some individuals that were real quick to bite on it. The following, agueing and some other tactics were definately wrong. It's interesting to see some of the diffeerences between operations of Eastern PD's and the Western ones I am familiar with.


Well the transcripts do speak for themselves and they did say that there were 3 out of 20 IIRC that had the forms on hand.  When you have the police chief say there's a systematic problem (my words, not his) there's a problem.

Offline Shamus

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3583
South Florida Police Departments
« Reply #8 on: March 01, 2006, 10:18:17 PM »
I would be inclined to go in during office hours and see the Chief in a small department or IAD in a large one.

If you suspect coruption in the comand staff, file with the state police.

Going in at night like that and your more apt to run into Howdy Doody's or guys that have no clue as to how to start the investigation just as shown.

shamus
one of the cats

FSO Jagdgeschwader 11

Offline SAS_KID

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1098
      • http://www.myspace.com/saskid
South Florida Police Departments
« Reply #9 on: March 01, 2006, 11:05:05 PM »
heh im sure you guys know this but at least your cops tell them to leave when a young teen backed up slowly and a cop fell over the cops open fired with 154 bullets and like 30 hit the ESCALADE 3 hit the kid and one hit a cop and the rest hit surronding homes. I meen the video they showed it was at about 10 meters i meen i can aim my air rifle on my marksman ship team for NJROTC into a tight little group on a silver dollar sized target at 10 meters... AN AIR RIFLE ON A SMALL TARGET someone teach our cops how to shoot!! Btw happened in Pasedena CA i belive somewhere in southern cali.
Quote from: hitech on Today at 09:27:26 AM
What utter and compete BS, quite frankly I should kick you off this bbs for this post.

The real truth is you do not like the answer.

HiTech

Offline lasersailor184

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8938
South Florida Police Departments
« Reply #10 on: March 01, 2006, 11:19:12 PM »
...

SAS, please stop and think out your posts.  Ontop of that, try to recall what actually happened.
Punishr - N.D.M. Back in the air.
8.) Lasersailor 73 "Will lead the impending revolution from his keyboard"

Offline Maverick

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 13958
South Florida Police Departments
« Reply #11 on: March 02, 2006, 12:53:30 AM »
Guns,

I have no doubt the transcripts are acurate to the tape as shown. I do not have confidence that the tape as shown is as it was shot or as the conversations were conducted. What I do not see is a complete and non edited tape with shots from a single continuous perspective. There is too much room to stage a situation then produce the tape you want while leaving a few critical parts of it on the editing room floor.

Please note I am not excusing some of the conduct displayed in the tape. You obviously have some people who are acting in an unprofessional manner. Some of the Sergeants involved should have simply stated to the individual that there is no procedure to use a form to start an investigation and that they can innitiate it now or return during normal business hours and talk to the IA investigators. Keeping the response simple and to the point would make it hard for the person instigating the conversation to draw it out unless they were going to file a complaint.

The idea that a simple form to start a complaint is going to be a panacea for a problem with the complaint process is rather ludicrous. The form won't produce an investigation, lead to a conclusion nor find a recomendation of founded or absolved either. Someone has to conduct an actual investigation. That means talk to the individual filing the complaint, the employee involved and any witnesses to the alleged action. If it involved any situation that could have been filmed, ie. dash cam from a patrol car and so on. Simply stating on a piece of paper that some action occured is not the magic bullet they seemed to portray. There also should be no problem with bringing an independent witness to be with the complainant during the process of filing the complaint. It is not unheard of for the complainant to bring their attorney or other person with them. (At least in my home town)

Let me give you an example of an IA investigation that I was a tertiary part of. A person went to the IA office and filed a complaint. The person did produce ID and gave a story. The allegation was that an Officer went to a Circle K store, bought a "can of columbian gold" went to the rear of the store and in view of the complainant injected the entire can into his arm. Now look at the allegation and see if you see any discrepancy. Also the individual making the complaint was a diagnosed mental case, on record as delusional, paranoid and a compulsive liar. Would you expect the complaint to be dismisssed out of hand? It wasn't. That Officer was followed by undercover detectives assigned to IA on a 24 hr a day surveilance for 3 weeks. After the surveilance was completed he was called in and advised of the complaint, questioned about the allegation and after questioning allowed to read the complaint and a synopsis of the surveilance. Wonder of wonders, the complaint was declared unfounded. I was notified of it as the Officer was my best friend and we took our ladies on a couple evenings out during the time of the surveilance. Since I was seen associating with him I was also listed in the report. I got to read the allegation only because I was also questioned about any possible drug use by my buddy.

There have been quite a few other complaints filed just as bogus as the one I listed. It didn't matter how silly the allegation was, they were all taken and investigated.

It wasn't until some Officers decided to file suits against the persons filing the complaints for false allegations that the numbers dropped. Several attorneys had prompted their clients to file complaints as a way to try and put a mitigating circumstance prior to trial and as a means of intimidation for the Officers involved. It also was a nice way to try and put an assumption of corruption in the juries mind when the attorney asked the Officer on the stand if there had been an internal investigation regarding the very subject of the trial.

Long before dash cams were thought of several of us carried tape recorders on us and taped conversations with our contacts, especially during traffic stops. They came in very handy at times.
DEFINITION OF A VETERAN
A Veteran - whether active duty, retired, national guard or reserve - is someone who, at one point in their life, wrote a check made payable to "The United States of America", for an amount of "up to and including my life."
Author Unknown

Offline Red Tail 444

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2497
      • http://www.redtail.org
South Florida Police Departments
« Reply #12 on: March 02, 2006, 01:18:50 AM »
Roscoe P Coltrain...Barney Fife...and the cast of Reno 911 all rolled up into one news story

Offline Gunthr

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3043
      • http://www.dot.squat
South Florida Police Departments
« Reply #13 on: March 02, 2006, 07:20:03 AM »
Maverick, your anecdote illustrates another aspect of Internal Affairs issues that people don't usuallly see.   It is tough working down where the rubber meets the road every single day in the public eye, and all anybody has to do in order to mess with you is make a complaint.  Even if it is totally unfounded, if you get too many of them you get "red flagged." There have been abuses of cops by their own agencies often enough that it has resulted in the Law Enforcement Officers Bill of Rights

Quote
112.532  Florida Law Enforcement Officers Rights
Title X
PUBLIC OFFICERS, EMPLOYEES, AND RECORDS Chapter 112
PUBLIC OFFICERS AND EMPLOYEES:
GENERAL PROVISIONS

112.532 Law enforcement officers' and correctional officers' rights.
All law enforcement officers and correctional officers employed by or appointed to a law enforcement agency or a correctional agency shall have the following rights and privileges:

(1) RIGHTS OF LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS AND CORRECTIONAL OFFICERS WHILE UNDER INVESTIGATION.
Whenever a law enforcement officer or correctional officer is under investigation and subject to interrogation by members of his or her agency for any reason which could lead to disciplinary action, demotion, or dismissal, such interrogation shall be conducted under the following conditions:

 
(a) The interrogation shall be conducted at a reasonable hour, preferably at a time when the law enforcement officer or correctional officer is on duty, unless the seriousness of the investigation is of such a degree that immediate action is required.

(b) The interrogation shall take place either at the office of the command of the investigating officer or at the office of the local precinct, police unit, or correctional unit in which the incident allegedly occurred, as designated by the investigating officer or agency.

(c) The law enforcement officer or correctional officer under investigation shall be informed of the rank, name, and command of the officer in charge of the investigation, the interrogating officer, and all persons present during the interrogation. All questions directed to the officer under interrogation shall be asked by or through one interrogator during any one investigative interrogation, unless specifically waived by the officer under investigation.

(d) The law enforcement officer or correctional officer under investigation shall be informed of the nature of the investigation prior to any interrogation, and he or she shall be informed of the name of all complainants.

(e) Interrogating sessions shall be for reasonable periods and shall be timed to allow for such personal necessities and rest periods as are reasonably necessary.

(f) The law enforcement officer or correctional officer under interrogation shall not be subjected to offensive language or be threatened with transfer, dismissal, or disciplinary action. No promise or reward shall be made as an inducement to answer any questions.

(g) The formal interrogation of a law enforcement officer or correctional officer, including all recess periods, shall be recorded on audio tape, or otherwise preserved in such a manner as to allow a transcript to be prepared, and there shall be no unrecorded questions or statements. Upon the request of the interrogated officer, a copy of any such recording of the interrogation session must be made available to the interrogated officer no later than 72 hours, excluding holidays and weekends, following said interrogation.

(h) If the law enforcement officer or correctional officer under interrogation is under arrest, or is likely to be placed under arrest as a result of the interrogation, he or she shall be completely informed of all his or her rights prior to the commencement of the interrogation.

(i) At the request of any law enforcement officer or correctional officer under investigation, he or she shall have the right to be represented by counsel or any other representative of his or her choice, who shall be present at all times during such interrogation whenever the interrogation relates to the officer's continued fitness for law enforcement or correctional service.

(j) Notwithstanding the rights and privileges provided by this part, this part does not limit the right of an agency to discipline or to pursue criminal charges against an officer.

(2) COMPLAINT REVIEW BOARDS.
A complaint review board shall be composed of three members: One member selected by the chief administrator of the agency or unit; one member selected by the aggrieved officer; and a third member to be selected by the other two members. Agencies or units having more than 100 law enforcement officers or correctional officers shall utilize a five-member board, with two members being selected by the administrator, two members being selected by the aggrieved officer, and the fifth member being selected by the other four members. The board members shall be law enforcement officers or correctional officers selected from any state, county, or municipal agency within the county. There shall be a board for law enforcement officers and a board for correctional officers whose members shall be from the same discipline as the aggrieved officer. The provisions of this subsection shall not apply to sheriffs or deputy sheriffs.

(3) CIVIL SUITS BROUGHT BY LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS OR CORRECTIONAL OFFICERS.
Every law enforcement officer or correctional officer shall have the right to bring civil suit against any person, group of persons, or organization or corporation, or the head of such organization or corporation, for damages, either pecuniary or otherwise, suffered during the performance of the officer's official duties, for abridgment of the officer's civil rights arising out of the officer's performance of official duties, or for filing a complaint against the officer which the person knew was false when it was filed. This section does not establish a separate civil action against the officer's employing law enforcement agency for the investigation and processing of a complaint filed under this part.

(4)(a) NOTICE OF DISCIPLINARY ACTION.
No dismissal, demotion, transfer, reassignment, or other personnel action which might result in loss of pay or benefits or which might otherwise be considered a punitive measure shall be taken against any law enforcement officer or correctional officer unless such law enforcement officer or correctional officer is notified of the action and the reason or reasons therefor prior to the effective date of such action.

(b) Notwithstanding the provisions of s. 112.533(2), whenever a law enforcement officer or correctional officer is subject to disciplinary action consisting of suspension with loss of pay, demotion, or dismissal, the officer shall, upon request, be provided with a complete copy of the investigative report and supporting documents and with the opportunity to address the findings in the report with the employing law enforcement agency prior to the imposition of the disciplinary action consisting of suspension with loss of pay, demotion, or dismissal. The contents of the complaint and investigation shall remain confidential until such time as the employing law enforcement agency makes a final determination whether or not to issue a notice of disciplinary action consisting of suspension with loss of pay, demotion, or dismissal. This paragraph shall not be construed to provide law enforcement officers with a property interest or expectancy of continued employment, employment, or appointment as a law enforcement officer.

(5) RETALIATION FOR EXERCISING RIGHTS.
No law enforcement officer or correctional officer shall be discharged; disciplined; demoted; denied promotion, transfer, or reassignment; or otherwise discriminated against in regard to his or her employment or appointment, or be threatened with any such treatment, by reason of his or her exercise of the rights granted by this part.

 


Obviously, criminal allegations are handled as crimes to be investigated - and they are handled very different from administrative violations of policy and procedures.  Under criminal allegations, the gloves are off so to speak, and nobody is going to tell the target officer anything... they don't have to.  They can lie to the target, surveil the target, and use any method they can normally use in a criminal investigation.  


Anyway, having said that,  from the Chief executive officer's point of view in a law enforcement agency, one of the quickest ways to wind up in the newspapers is to not pay attention to IA complaints.   I think it's critical to have a complaint form and allow any complainant to freely write down any flipping thing they want.  (some complainants hang themselves) It is also critical that when this form is turned in by a complainant, that it go straight to someone who reports directly to the Chief or Sheriff.  The decision whether or not a case number is punched and the complaint is assigned should be his, or his designate's.  The forms should all be kept on file, regardless of disposition, and kept according to the retention schedules for public records.  That way, everybody is covered.
"When I speak I put on a mask. When I act, I am forced to take it off."  - Helvetius 18th Century

Offline DoctorYO

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 696
South Florida Police Departments
« Reply #14 on: March 02, 2006, 01:58:23 PM »
But come on Gunthr,   you must admitt the transcripts are amusing...

"are you on medication?"


I like the one who is looking out for his buddies...  "you must tell me your complaint first.."

(but)

"you need to leave..."

(but)

"give me your ID"


Ah my tax dollar hard at work...


Welcome to Sunny Florida..

:lol


DoctorYo