"National Security" or 1st Amendment rights denial?

[10Bears]

Yeah what was that all about fishing around in Clinton’s trousers for years.

Study after study has urged the federalization of airport security, for pretty much the same reasons city governments take responsibility for firefighting. Maybe we don't expect airport security personnel to put their lives on the line, but we do place our lives in their hands. To that list of reasons has been added another: the need to share sensitive information about potential terrorists. Did recent events finally persuade the doubters?
Not a chance. Representative Bob Barr, Republican of Georgia, put it this way: "To me as a conservative, I look at a problem and ask, Is this a federal function?"
Think about that for a minute. Terrorists board planes in Boston, and use those planes to kill thousands of innocent people in New York — and Mr. Barr still can't see why airport security is a federal function? What would convince him that a federal role is warranted? One suspects that if the U.S. Army didn't already exist, he would oppose its creation — maybe he would argue that state militias, assisted by a few independent contractors (that is, companies of mercenaries) could do the job.
And Mr. Barr is by no means exceptional in his views. Congressional Republican leaders have declared themselves dead set against any proposal to federalize airport security, on the grounds that it would create a new federal bureaucracy — they have even denounced federalization as "socialism." And they have reportedly told the Bush administration that they would prefer no airport security bill to one that creates any new federal functions.
The story here is bigger than airport security. What's now clear, in case you had any doubts, is that America's hard right is simply fanatical — there is literally nothing that will persuade these people to accept the need for increased federal spending. And we're not talking about some isolated fringe; we're talking about the men who control the Congressional Republican Party — and seem, once again, to be in control of the White House http://www.nytimes.com/2001/10/10/opinion/10KRUG.html

Heheh I don’t ask questions if I don’t already know the answer Rip.... Just checking to see if you do. Oh this from the New York Times not worldnettomdelay

From Hang
 There's a hunderd more examples of financial and functional sacrafices being made right now to accomodate the war on terror.. and it would seem we're goin along with it; semi-willingly; grudingly, grumbling, but "yeah; ok... if we gotta; we gotta.."
The number of encroachments into our ALL our 'personal libertys' are running signifcantly higher than those that we here in NY are feeling already.. your emails are being read, your cell phones and land lines are monitored for 'flag' phrases and words, soon you will have a national identity file and identity card, your finances and personal movements will be monitored and recorded, .. itsa DONE DEAL folks. All it's gonna take is time.
There's a policy change in the wind.. the government is posturing to act on info before a crime is committed.. a complete reversal on previous policy.

Hang don’t you know this was the plan all along. Corporations prefer a fascist government consumers are much easier to control that way. Before fascism became a bad word in ww2 there was a plot in 1933 to overthrow Roosevelt and install this form of government.  

Ripsnort wrote: Weazel, there's a big difference in a police state as you think of it and terrorism reality we live in today. Extra security at the airport, allowing wire tapping on suspected terrorists I don't have a problem with if it means making the area I live in that much safer. I haven't seen any Jack boots marching to brass bands down mainstreet yet

Rip, the problem here is that who is a terrorist is not clearly defined. You remember the Rico laws were created to catch mob bosses. Then we have the war on drugs, they used Rico laws to nab the girlfriend of the corner crack dealer and give her 15 years in prison.

Give these guys too much power they abuse it.

What’s to stop John Ashcroft from claiming rap music, gay activists, tree huggers, that cute hippy girl Judy Butterfly.... a terrorist?.

Weazel wrote: sniped...

Jihad stop stirring up the rednecks... you too Nash. You start calling people names they automatically win the debate

Rip again: yeah, bush lobbied tax cuts in the election run, ya, he lied about that! ?(Rip counts the $600 bills laying in front of him, knowing that the other $600 was stolen by the Dems when they petrified his tax proposal)

I used the $300 to pay off my credit card debt so my interest rate wouldn’t go up. Which would be a good idea for America so ALL our interest rates don’t go up... Rip, I’m missing about $6,000 in work due  to the slowing economy caused in part by the  tax cut...  I hear your employer is fixing to lay off about 20,000 workers. Which is better a tax cut or employment?

Oh one other thing, Bush said during the campaign he would change the direction of the country.... that was no lie.
10Bears

[Ripsnort]

10bears, NYTimes is to the left what Rush Limbaugh is to the right.    

Also, please explain to me how an economy that began slowing drastically in March of 2000 was affected by a tax cut, which historically injects health into an economy?

Boeings layoffs are due directly to the date 9-11-01,nothing more.

And, if a Gov't did nothing in the wake of 9-11, do you think they would be critisized more or less than doing *something* in regards to the police state part of this thread?

[ 10-12-2001: Message edited by: Ripsnort ]

[10Bears]

give me a couple of hours Rip Im fixing a car.

You want to start a new economy thread I'll fetch graphs and charts.

[Ripsnort]

I just want to say this, most stock analysts I talk to on the BMW board, and most meaning 9 out of 10, agree that the way to get an economy back on track is to get people to spend money.  Its a simple concept, people spend money, companies post larger profits, stock value goes up, you follow the meaning...now if you give more money to people to spend (think tax cuts), what are the people going to do? Spend money! Rinse and repeat.    

Now I realize that the economy is a much more complicated animal than I posted above, but this is the simplest way to get it jump started.

[ 10-12-2001: Message edited by: Ripsnort ]

[Eagler]

Originally posted by weazel:


Your guns are the next thing you will lose... they can be used for terrorist attacks.

[ 10-12-2001: Message edited by: weazel ]

Nice comparision, ask the media to half way control itself and the confiscation of personal firearms ...yep - same thing, Identical.  

I think you forgot, goron lost. THey b the ones who want to disarm us..

[Manedew]

Lets Elect the Media President next time around, they control everything anyway.  

Heard on  NPR, I think it was, about a fella who distrusted the US Goverment (not that I can't blame him... they do have history)

Now he says he has complete faith in the goverments actions... odd change I think
 
I don't see these lines of security that are building inside the US, anything but a self-impowering Govement;with branches that already break the constitution, as I understand it. (IRS can seize property with no trial,DEA can seize property for 'suspected drug dealing')

Any of you ever heard inoccent until proven
guilty?

This is what worries me about wire taps and other such crap. Now some people seem to want racial profileing too?!?

i think i'm adopting a new motto roadkill


Well it's pointless we can be right till were dead, but most people aren't educated or smart enough to see or care. So guess we better just put the media in charge

And btw being a texan ... you can have my guns when you get em' from my cold, dead hands. (besides you have to have lines you won't let your goverment cross, and this is a good one with a valid point. We should proably have more 'lines')
I'm rather amazed the FBI got blowen up before the IRS.  

I love the USA but i just don't trust the goverment .. and would have to be crazy; or maybe have a rat trying to claw my eyes out, to make me think otherwise.
 Besides how can you like people or orginaztions who outlaw'd grass to get rid of mexican's ... I mean tacos are good!
hehe

Something else, i looked at it once if i was to follow goverment regulations to the letter I'd have to charge 15,000$ for what would cost 4,000$ in business. Wouldn't get many customer's that way.

[weazel]

Originally posted by Eagler:


Nice comparision, ask the media to half way control itself and the confiscation of personal firearms ...yep - same thing, Identical.  

I think you forgot, goron lost. THey b the ones who want to disarm us..

Are you so ignorant you can't figure out the logical conclusions?

IF the media had told the government to kiss their bellybutton do you think they would pass an anti terrorism decree to shut down the medias RIGHT to report newsworthy items?

I bet they would, and if freedom of speach is curtailed what's to stop them from confiscating weapons from citizens?

Welcome to the police state, all you right wingers will feel all fuzzy and warm about it....until they knock on your doors.

[StSanta]

Hey rip, in mny previous posts, republicans have used the "slippery slope" argument, fallacious as it is. As now demonstrated, it's not a fun one to fight against, since there's no real defence against preditions   - except waiting and seeing if they happen.

Seems small chips here and there on yer freedom isn't that bad? I dunno; government reading my mails, listening in on my phone calls.

COMMUNIST TERRORIST AMERICAN SATAN

Let's see if they react on that one.

[weazel]

Eagler why do you sugercoat your words by saying sand monkeys, towel heads, etc to describe Arab people instead of just coming out and saying SAND cupcakeS, when it's what you really think?

Although I'm caucasion go ahead and add me to your list of subhumans and enemys of the state if it makes you feel better.

[ 10-13-2001: Message edited by: weazel ]

[leonid]

I guess one has to be on guard that we retain our freedoms during this crisis.  What I find disturbing is what seems to be a very vocal political thought in the USA that 'if you aren't supporting the war, you aren't American.'  It closely resembles Bushes, "If you are not with us, you are against us" statement, and goes against the grain of the Bill of Rights.  I also read that the government is 'encouraging' schoolchildren to say the pledge of allegiance now.  I have nothing against the pledge of allegiance, but it bothers me that the government finds it important to suggest the reinforcement of children's political behavior.

Now remember, I do support our country's actions against bin Laden & the Taliban, but I don't see why there is any need to insure that everyone thinks of 'like' mind.  That is the strength of the USA, to have a system where people think as they choose, believe as they choose, so long as they abide by the laws of this land.  Rather than try to 'suggest' patrioticly correct behavior upon American citizens, it would be much wiser to remind all Americans that freedom doesn't come for free, and so we must act responsibly as citizens for the good of all.

[ 10-14-2001: Message edited by: leonid ]

[StSanta]

Hm, am hearing from other American friends that some professors and other people critical of the US position on this have been removed from their positions.

Scary.

Will see if I can provide you with concrete info: this sure ain't right, no matter if these guys are nuts.