Author Topic: "National Security" or 1st Amendment rights denial?  (Read 2277 times)

Offline Ripsnort

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 27260
"National Security" or 1st Amendment rights denial?
« on: October 11, 2001, 08:03:00 AM »
Whats your take on the mainstream press agreeing not to airwave any more Bin Laden video tapes on national TV? (due to the possibility of 'messages' to his minions)

Offline Ripsnort

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 27260
"National Security" or 1st Amendment rights denial?
« Reply #1 on: October 11, 2001, 08:06:00 AM »
Incidently, this is exactly what I was speaking of in a thread two weeks ago where I said I would be willing to make sacrifices in a "police state" world, such as extra security at airports(longer waits), National Guard at major land marks, permission to wire tap in suspected terrorist cases, and now, this.

Offline Nifty

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4400
"National Security" or 1st Amendment rights denial?
« Reply #2 on: October 11, 2001, 08:15:00 AM »
bin Laden isn't an American citizen nor even on US soil so the 1st Amendment does not apply to his words.

Freedom of Speech/Press isn't the end all be all.  There are some things you just can't and shouldn't say or air in the news.  National Security comes first in this case.
proud member of the 332nd Flying Mongrels, noses in the wind since 1997.

Offline Ripsnort

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 27260
"National Security" or 1st Amendment rights denial?
« Reply #3 on: October 11, 2001, 08:19:00 AM »
I wasn't referring to his freedom of speech, I was referring ours in relation to the freedom of information act, related to the 1st amendment.

Offline Eagler

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 18723
"National Security" or 1st Amendment rights denial?
« Reply #4 on: October 11, 2001, 08:27:00 AM »
just posted in the US Congress thread concerning this ..

Problem is though Bush is 110% right on this issue, he ain't making no friends in the good ole media which will bite him in the arse in about 3 years...

Gotta love ole Arty, his press guy ..top notch! How many press secs did ole Slick go through 5 or 6?  :)
"Masters of the Air" Scenario - JG27


Intel Core i7-13700KF | GIGABYTE Z790 AORUS Elite AX | 64GB G.Skill DDR5 | 16GB GIGABYTE RTX 4070 Ti Super | 850 watt ps | pimax Crystal Light | Warthog stick | TM1600 throttle | VKB Mk.V Rudder

Offline Nifty

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4400
"National Security" or 1st Amendment rights denial?
« Reply #5 on: October 11, 2001, 08:43:00 AM »
hehe, then I want to use the Freedom of Information act to find out what really happened in Roswell!!!  

Nat'l security still takes precedence over freedom of information.  Media needs to shut up, and the people leaking info (obviously bin Laden's speech doesn't fit into that) need to be plugged up.
proud member of the 332nd Flying Mongrels, noses in the wind since 1997.

Offline Ripsnort

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 27260
"National Security" or 1st Amendment rights denial?
« Reply #6 on: October 11, 2001, 08:47:00 AM »
I am particularly interested in replies from our friends that are left of center, the FD-ski's, the Weazels, the Nash's, etc.  Whats your take on this?  National security issue or infringement on ones rights?

Offline AKDejaVu

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5049
      • http://www.dbstaines.com
"National Security" or 1st Amendment rights denial?
« Reply #7 on: October 11, 2001, 08:51:00 AM »
They didn't order them not to play the tapes.  They requested that they use better judgement.

Basically... they just asked "Do you want to be the news company that is identified as a key weapon used against the US?"  Stuff like that sends shivers up a CEO's spine.

AKDejaVu

Offline Ripsnort

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 27260
"National Security" or 1st Amendment rights denial?
« Reply #8 on: October 11, 2001, 08:53:00 AM »
Good point Deja. So, in your opinions...do you think the Gov't used good judgement in issueing such advice?  Or is freedom of information more important?

Offline JV44

  • Copper Member
  • **
  • Posts: 120
"National Security" or 1st Amendment rights denial?
« Reply #9 on: October 11, 2001, 09:24:00 AM »
Hello...

Well anyway, they are 1000 ways to inform or instruct your gang of terrorists, so why use this complicated Method with hidden messages in a tape???

Sure all of us should be much more carefully than in the past... but this now is a little paranoia, is not???   :rolleyes:

I mean to get the poeple frightened is also a main goal of terrorists, we should not give them a chance to spoil our lifes!   ;)

JV44 (Andreas)

Offline Ripsnort

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 27260
"National Security" or 1st Amendment rights denial?
« Reply #10 on: October 11, 2001, 09:32:00 AM »
JV44, theres an old saying I've used for many years, and because of it, I've survived many an ordeal that could have killed me.

"Just because I'm paranoid, doesn't mean I shouldn't be."

  :cool:

Offline Serapis

  • Copper Member
  • **
  • Posts: 269
      • http://www.keithreid.com
"National Security" or 1st Amendment rights denial?
« Reply #11 on: October 11, 2001, 09:51:00 AM »
I think it’s a bit ridiculous actually. First of all, Bin Laden's messages will not sway American perceptions to any great extent (except, perhaps to make us hate him even more), so as a propaganda tool I don’t think it has a great deal of value either way. As far as sending strike orders – perhaps. I got that impression when I first heard the latest speech and before it became a public issue. Unfortunately, the mainstream media is only one source of information given the fact that there are numerous Muslim news sources and the Internet. We posted a transcript of his video on this board. And, I don’t think there is any way to fully stop the inevitable acts that will be committed here as the war progresses. Our Intel will let us stop some before they happen and others will be rolled up after the fact. In some ways, like with serial killers, we almost have to have additional attacks to open up information on new cells, etc.

I don’t think Bush is doing a particularly good job when it comes to PR (Ari is only the mouthpiece, these policy decision are made with a lot of input by the cabinet). First there was the “controversy” over Bush’s delay in returning to Washington on 9.11. The press was a bit ignorant up front, which is not unusual, but then you had Ari up there trying to spin it like there was ‘a potential attack on Air Force One…blah, blah, blah.’ All he had to say was the truth about realistic security concerns (plane crashing into the Whitehoue), and stick by it, but political habits die hard even in time of crisis. The press continued to follow up precisely because the spin was so poor and obvious. That was the only thing that gave me a laugh so early after the attack. This latest press issue seems to be wishful thinking and overreaction. Given the fact that the information is readily accessible seconds later on the Web, it would be better not to confuse people over possible “hidden motivations” behind such efforts.

The real security issues are related to operational information, which the press does a pretty good job of handling. Our elected leaders in both parties, wanting to appear in the know and on the ball when the cameras are rolling can be quite another issue. Still, there needs to be congressional oversight when we go to war because that is how or balance of power works, and has worked well.

Yeah, the press can be ignorant and overreacting, but without a free press it would be fairly easy for the government to do whatever it wanted and just tell the people what they wanted to hear. Democracy is sloppy, and there are many disadvantages with the system of governance. But once you start “simplifying” things it’s too easy to end up with fascism. After all, Nazi Germany had full control over the information it’s people received and a tremendous level of internal security, but it didn’t really serve their long-term interests.

The real issue that is probably bugging Bush (leading to knee-jerk reactions), is how do we get our message out as effectively to the Muslim world, so that we can maintain a “war on terrorism” supported by the moderate regimes in the Middle East instead of World War III with a mobilization not seen since 1945.

Charon

[ 10-11-2001: Message edited by: Charon ]

Offline miko2d

  • Parolee
  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3177
"National Security" or 1st Amendment rights denial?
« Reply #12 on: October 11, 2001, 09:59:00 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by JV44:
[QB]...why use this complicated Method with hidden messages in a tape???[QB]

 Who said anything about hidden messages?

 Bin Laden makes speaches for americans to hear that have two main purposes:
 1. Scare american public with threat of more attacks, demoralise us.
 2. Inspire some muslims among americans to commit terror acts.

 If Bin Laden loaded a plane with leaflets of his speach to drop on our cities, we would have shot it down. Fortunately for him he can rely on our own media to broadcast his speach for him.
 Do you think in exchange Taliban broadcasts Bush's and Blair's speaches to their population?

 All government did ws to ask media to excercise common sense. They did not issue any law or exacutive order to that effect.

 miko

Offline Ripsnort

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 27260
"National Security" or 1st Amendment rights denial?
« Reply #13 on: October 11, 2001, 10:00:00 AM »
Good reply Charon, arguably the best one I've heard in relation to this.

Offline JV44

  • Copper Member
  • **
  • Posts: 120
"National Security" or 1st Amendment rights denial?
« Reply #14 on: October 11, 2001, 10:01:00 AM »
Hello...

In press and TV are they spoken about the fear that the interviews and tape of Bin Laden & Co. maybe contains hidden messages for sleepers in US and Europe...

That was what I mean....

Jv44 (Andreas)  :rolleyes: