Author Topic: Bonds exposed. (Read 656 times)

Sixpence · « **Reply #15 on:** March 08, 2006, 11:04:59 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Ripsnort
Thats where steriods help.

A juiced ball and shorter outfield fences didn't hurt either.

Mathman · « **Reply #16 on:** March 08, 2006, 12:55:51 PM »

The biggest impact steroids will have for a baseball player is that it keeps the "dog days" of a 162 game season from occuring. Players stay at midseason form through August and September. Recovery time from injuries also shortens significantly.

It is a shame, though. Bonds was a lock for the Hall of Fame before he started in 1998 with the roids. He was a jerk and prima donna to be sure, but he was still a great player. Too bad greed and vanity got in the way.

Holden McGroin · « **Reply #17 on:** March 08, 2006, 01:25:54 PM »

Being stronger = greater bat speed, which not only puts more energy to the ball yeilding longer hits, it delays the decision time to commit to the swing.

With more time to see the ball before commiting to swing, a batter should have a better hitting eye and therefore, a better on base percentage.

midnight Target · « **Reply #18 on:** March 08, 2006, 04:38:34 PM »

Stronger may not = greater bat speed. If that were so we'd see alot more NFL linemen types hitting dingers.

No doubt the roids help in increasing the ability to work out, recover and stay in peak condition.

I just don't have a problem with professionals doing whatever it takes to be the best. Let them ruin their lives while they hit 500 foot bombs. Why is it an issue? Do you doubt for a second that Babe Ruth wouldn't have juiced if he could have? I'd bet Cobb would have jumped at the chance to gain an edge.

Holden McGroin · « **Reply #19 on:** March 08, 2006, 04:56:14 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by midnight Target
Stronger may not = greater bat speed. If that were so we'd see alot more NFL linemen types hitting dingers.

No doubt the roids help in increasing the ability to work out, recover and stay in peak condition.

I just don't have a problem with professionals doing whatever it takes to be the best. Let them ruin their lives while they hit 500 foot bombs. Why is it an issue? Do you doubt for a second that Babe Ruth wouldn't have juiced if he could have? I'd bet Cobb would have jumped at the chance to gain an edge.

Baseball, maybe more than any other sport is about statistics. The next guy to get near .400 will be compared to Ted Williams. The next guy to get a 45 game hitting streak will start a count down to Dimaggio.

Comparing a bionic freak to Ty Cobb would be apples and oranges and would hurt the game.

A stronger swing will yield bat speed because there is more force to accelerate the bat. NFL linemen are not known for the ability to hit a curveball because of the lack of a batters eye, and .... a bat.

Ripsnort · « **Reply #20 on:** March 08, 2006, 05:00:15 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by midnight Target
Stronger may not = greater bat speed. If that were so we'd see alot more NFL linemen types hitting dingers.

There are more than 100 customized Steroid "cocktails" that have been developed for specific sports. A linemens steroid is not the same as the one a track runner would use. They engineered specifically for what you want to accomplish.

midnight Target · « **Reply #21 on:** March 08, 2006, 05:13:19 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Holden McGroin
Baseball, maybe more than any other sport is about statistics. The next guy to get near .400 will be compared to Ted Williams. The next guy to get a 45 game hitting streak will start a count down to Dimaggio.

Comparing a bionic freak to Ty Cobb would be apples and oranges and would hurt the game.

A stronger swing will yield bat speed because there is more force to accelerate the bat. NFL linemen are not known for the ability to hit a curveball because of the lack of a batters eye, and .... a bat.

Then tell me why Steroids are any different than vitamin supplements and year round excersize programs.

Neither of those existed when Williams was hitting .406 or when Dimaggio had his 56. There is no way to compare apples to apples and we should just stop trying.

Ripsnort · « **Reply #22 on:** March 08, 2006, 05:18:45 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by midnight Target
I just don't have a problem with professionals doing whatever it takes to be the best. Let them ruin their lives while they hit 500 foot bombs. Why is it an issue? .

Romans felt the same way about "Games" they played. Gladiators were allowed, even forced to, kill each other for entertainment purposes of the crowds. How does it feel to teach your children "its okay to destroy your body (using 'roids) in order to entertain the masses and make millions...and oh, by the way, you'll most likely die at a young age."

Stringer · « **Reply #23 on:** March 08, 2006, 06:06:52 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Ripsnort
Romans felt the same way about "Games" they played. Gladiators were allowed, even forced to, kill each other for entertainment purposes of the crowds. How does it feel to teach your children "its okay to destroy your body (using 'roids) in order to entertain the masses and make millions...and oh, by the way, you'll most likely die at a young age."

I don't teach my children that, so I don't know how that feels. (I know you weren't directing that at anyone per say Rip, but I wanted to use it to illustrate my feelings below).

From the personal responsibility aspect, I will not tell my children that. I will also not blame Barry Bonds if my child wants to do steriods. I will place the blame squarely on him for his actions and until he is 18 on myself for not being the the parental role model I want to be.

I know this, my boys will be exposed to this when they reach high school (or maybe before, although I really shudder at that) and I am, and intend to, stay involved enough in their lives, that if they do bow to peer pressure, and I catch it, that, as long as they live as a dependent of mine, I will do what I can to put a stop to it (including making sure any adults in a coaching role with minors who facilitate this will be exposed).

I've already seen examples of parents who put their kids on growth hormones at elementary school age (under the guise of treating some other malady). I've seen a kid go from average to well above average in height and bulk from a fall season to a spring season. I won't blame Barry Bonds or society or any of that. The blame rests squarely on the parent who makes that decision for that child. Those aren't societal choices, those are individual choices. If you haven't seen it yourself Rip, I bet you will at some point as well with your boys' activities.

People do incredibley stupid things for fame and money (of course that applies to more than sports). That will never stop. I hope to be a good enough teacher to my boys to show how stupid things are not worth the fame and money. Easier said than done, I know, but what about raising kids isn't?

midnight Target · « **Reply #24 on:** March 08, 2006, 06:10:47 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Ripsnort
Romans felt the same way about "Games" they played. Gladiators were allowed, even forced to, kill each other for entertainment purposes of the crowds. How does it feel to teach your children "its okay to destroy your body (using 'roids) in order to entertain the masses and make millions...and oh, by the way, you'll most likely die at a young age."

Well the gladiator point is just silly... so I'll ignore it.

Kids worship sports stars. I thought Micky Mantle was the greatest. That didn't make me want to go out and ruin my liver. Or eat 20 hot dogs at a sitting like the Babe. Or become a racist ******* like Cobb. Or sleep with 20,000 women like Chamberlain.... well maybe like Chamberlain ....

Anyway if the purpose of restricting Steroid use is to protect the Children then we ought to take it a step further. All NFL linemen over 320lbs are in danger of ruining their future health through arthritis and other joint desease. They should be forced to lose weight.

Silly arguments all. Let them juice.

Holden McGroin · « **Reply #25 on:** March 08, 2006, 06:15:11 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by midnight Target
Then tell me why Steroids are any different than vitamin supplements and year round excersize programs.

Neither of those existed when Williams was hitting .406 or when Dimaggio had his 56. There is no way to compare apples to apples and we should just stop trying.

Good diet and year round excersize programs were available to the ancient Greek Olympians and they were available to Honus Wagner.

Steroids were not available to the elders. Also steroids can shrivel up your manhood, make you sterile, and can kill you. A well designed diet and excersize program has none of these harmful effects.

Masherbrum · « **Reply #26 on:** March 08, 2006, 06:20:34 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by SOB
I don't see how steroids would improve your ability to track the ball and time your swing, but it the extra power that swing punched sure would knock the ball a lot further, I would think.

Steroids are used while weight lifting, which allow the muscles to recuperate MUCH faster. This is the sole reason why Steroids are used. Also, when injured it helps the body repair the injury faster (his knees and elbow which have PLAGUED him his whole career).

Here:

See for yourself.

1992:

1995: (still not on the juice yet)

1999:

Training + Steroids = more muscle mass QUICKER = faster bat speed and the inflated numbers this sad a** has accumulated.

MVP 8 times? My a**, ask Sid Bream (Barry Bonds couldn't throw one of the slowest players of the time out). Better yet, the ONLY time he hits 50+ HR's in a season, he hits 73?! If you need a roadmap, I can give you one.

Pre-1998 - AB per HR - 16.1
1998-on - AB per HR - 8.5

At least McGuire admitted to using Androstenedione.

Karaya

Ripsnort · « **Reply #27 on:** March 08, 2006, 07:29:51 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by midnight Target
Well the gladiator point is just silly... so I'll ignore it.

4- Members should post in a way that is respectful of other users and HTC. Flaming or abusing users is not tolerated.

SOB · « **Reply #28 on:** March 08, 2006, 08:35:42 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Ripsnort
Oh, okay. Guess I was automatically reacting to your past, typical "falling-over-ones-self-to-defend-my-brokeback-buddy-MiniD" replies.

Typical? I only defend people when they're right. Mostly because I'm always right, so if I'm defending someone's opinion as correct, it's because I agree, so it is.

Choocha · « **Reply #29 on:** March 09, 2006, 10:04:42 AM »

Bonds did more than just steroids. That jerk put body armor all over his body and stood on top of home plate. In the old days, pitchers would not put up with that and would have thrown at his head every pitch. Now, with political correctness and body armor…the only thing pitchers could do was pitch him inside. However, with his superhuman hand speed- he could fight off the inside pitches making it impossible to pitch to him. Result- Bonds set all the records for walks as well.