Overzealous Teacher

[lazs2]

I don't have an issue with schools in genreal...  I have an issue with public schools having a monopoly on our money.   private schools and home schools are very good and I have no issue with them other than they cost money.   I believe that the more money we give public schools the worse off we are.   The more of a monopoly they become the worse job they do.

In order to have a good education you have to pay once to fund public schools and then again to get into a real school or... stay home and school the children yourself.

yes.. the teacher should be fired.   His boss should be fired too.

lazs

[ChopSaw]

Originally posted by lazs2
I don't have an issue with schools in genreal...  I have an issue with public schools having a monopoly on our money.   private schools and home schools are very good and I have no issue with them other than they cost money.   I believe that the more money we give public schools the worse off we are.   The more of a monopoly they become the worse job they do.

In order to have a good education you have to pay once to fund public schools and then again to get into a real school or... stay home and school the children yourself.

yes.. the teacher should be fired.   His boss should be fired too.

Until there is an acceptable alternative to public schools I don't really see any way around that issue.  It is the public's responsibility to ensure the education of our children.  In that sense they are all our children.  There is a return on the investment we make in this process.  An overall elevation in the level of educated people and that elevates the quality of living for all of us.  Unfortunately, perhaps, public schools are the current best vector for the majority of our children.  Without it, many could not afford the most basic of educations and without that we'd never see what might become of them with an advanced one.  Some of the most brilliant people come from the humblest of beginnings.

As to firing the mans boss…….I think that might a case of throwing the baby out with the bathwater.  I haven't seen any evidence of the boss's culpability.  If the boss supported the activity through action or inaction, then yes,  In that case there would be some justice in reviewing his employment.

[Mighty1]

I don't think anyone should be fired.

I think the teacher was wrong but I don't think anything stronger than a warning is called for.

Review what he is supposed to teach ..tell him what will happen next time he goes into a political rant and move on.

[lazs2]

chopsaw... how is a voucher system not a viable alternative?   private schools consitently outperform public schools in performance and for less money.

Unless.... academic performance is not the goal for schooling then the obvious way to go is to allow for vouchers.

lazs

[lazs2]

those who have been educated in private schools for say their first 3-8 years and then have to go to public school for some reason allways feel the same way...

They feel like sober vette drivers at an autocross where all the competion is drunk and driving early model SUV's.  

What do private school children miss out on?  all the violence and shouting and getting to wear pants that have the waist at the crotch and worrying that someone will steal their goofy looking untied tennis shoes.

oh... and the joy of supporting a teachers union that hates kids.

lazs

[ChopSaw]

Originally posted by Mighty1
I don't think anyone should be fired.

I think the teacher was wrong but I don't think anything stronger than a warning is called for.

Review what he is supposed to teach ..tell him what will happen next time he goes into a political rant and move on.

Your view is more relaxed than mine.  I have a tendency to be more coldly black and white about such things.  My feeling is he already had been informed and knew what he was supposed to teach.  He also knew or should have known that he was out of line.  I will, however, concede that he may not have been informed of the possibility of termination consequences for his actions.  Unfortunately, I believe this is because he had good reason to think he would not face such a penalty.

I fear you're correct.  He'll get a talking to at best and no further action will be taken against him.  I still feel he knew what he was doing and that it was out of line and he should be fired.

[Sandman]

Originally posted by lazs2
those who have been educated in private schools for say their first 3-8 years and then have to go to public school for some reason allways feel the same way...

They feel like sober vette drivers at an autocross where all the competion is drunk and driving early model SUV's.  

What do private school children miss out on?  all the violence and shouting and getting to wear pants that have the waist at the crotch and worrying that someone will steal their goofy looking untied tennis shoes.

oh... and the joy of supporting a teachers union that hates kids.

lazs

I had my son in a private christian school for three years (6-8th grades).  In 8th grade, one of the teachers had him in a room alone and was touching him inappropriately. I went to the police and after a four or five month investigation, that teacher plead no contest.

In other words... private schools aren't necessarily safe either.

[ChopSaw]

Originally posted by lazs2
chopsaw... how is a voucher system not a viable alternative?   private schools consitently outperform public schools in performance and for less money.

Unless.... academic performance is not the goal for schooling then the obvious way to go is to allow for vouchers.

Currently a voucher system is not available in all areas and thus I do not see it as an alternative.  There is also the case against voucher's being used for parochial schools.  That would place the public in the position of funding a school controlled by a church and in which religion is one of the dishes served in the school experience.  Additionally, there is not enough room in private schools, especially the good ones, for all the children currently enrolled in public schools.

I'm personally opposed to any environment which places young people in uniforms.  It grinds down on their personal expression of individuality.  I firmly believe young people need to express themselves.  Teenagers especially strive and need to find who they are and how they can fit into society.  The cloths they choose to wear is a relatively harmless vector by which they can achieve this.  I look back on the way my hair looked and the way I dressed in high school and I laugh.  It didn't subvert me, but it was an expression of individuality that I'm glad I had.

Theft and violence is not found in private schools?  That seems to belie human nature.  Admittedly the violence in some public schools needs to be better addressed and is probably worse than most private schools, but you're never going to going to get away from it completely.  Particularly if you find a way to put all those kids currently in public school into private school.

Though I've run into teachers who obviously have a problem with kids, I was not aware that the teachers union hated kids.

There is the right to education in our society.  This right has made our society one of the strongest in the world.  Public schools give access to that right.  That means it is the publics responsibility to support those public schools with taxes.

You may argue that there is much to repair in public schools but that is hardly an argument for their elimination.

[lazs2]

sandie... so there is never a case of children being molested in public schools?  you did not argue my point too I noticed.. would you say that you had learned more in the private school than your peers in public school?

chopsaw... I don't understand what you are saying.   If we as a people feel that education is a benifiet to society then we are doing a disservice to ourselves (as society) by allowing public schools to be a monopoly in something so important.

I am saying that vouchers are the only way that public schools can be fixed... the current thinking is to throw more money at public schools... this kind of thinking has made things worse every year.

As for uniforms?  reall, that is debateable... the "individuality" that you speak of is, in terms of young children often a way to make those who can't afford the current fad clothing an object of ridicule.... the "individuality" you speak of is non existent...  the "uniform" of these so called individuals is every bit as strict in public school..... it just costs more... a kid dressed in K mart clothes in public school is not praised for his "individuality" he is ridiculed because he is not wearing $80 pants which are..... the defacto "uniform" of these mush brains.

public schools do a crappy job of educating... time to go to something else that we know works.... then public school can either catch up or die a merciful and much needed death.

lazs

[Sandman]

Originally posted by lazs2
sandie... so there is never a case of children being molested in public schools?  you did not argue my point too I noticed.. would you say that you had learned more in the private school than your peers in public school?

My... aren't we defensive.

I was making another point. Private schools aren't necessarily better than public schools. I can't speak to the differences as a student. I went to public schools.

While I think vouchers would be nice, I don't think they're the panacea to all that ills public schools.

I think all federal funds allocated to education should end. Education is a state issue.

[lazs2]

any time you destroy a monopoly... especialy a government one... you improve the product and the cost.

In some cases... the government monopoly survives like in the case of the postal service and package USPS.... but.. It evolves and becomes better..

Think of public schools in the same way....

lazs

[ChopSaw]

lazs2:  What I'm saying isn't too difficult to understand.  I'm a taxpayer.  Vouchers are use of tax money to fund the education of a child in the school of the parents choice.  Some parents choose to send their children to parochial schools.  These are schools which teach religion as well as the usual subjects.  I object to any plan which has my money going towards support of the teaching of religious dogma.

As far as the uniform issue?  We're really just going to disagree on that.  I'm sure you're wrong and you're sure I am.

What makes you think we'll have more control of what our children are taught by a particular teacher in a private school?  Recall the tirade of the socialist teacher which started this thread.  My experience with private schools indicates they teach what they want and if you don't like it, you take your business elsewhere.  At least with public schools we have strong vectors of input.

Sandman:  I have to disagree with your proposal to withdraw federal funds from schools and leave funding up to states.  We have states in the Union which could not support the same degree of education that the richer ones could.  It would lead to, if I may, an un-American inequality in access to quality education.  I'm not saying this doesn't already exist, but it would be enhanced if federal funding were withdrawn.

[Sandman]

Originally posted by ChopSaw

Sandman:  I have to disagree with your proposal to withdraw federal funds from schools and leave funding up to states.  We have states in the Union which could not support the same degree of education that the richer ones could.  It would lead to, if I may, an un-American inequality in access to quality education.  I'm not saying this doesn't already exist, but it would be enhanced if federal funding were withdrawn.

They can move to more competitive states.

[ChopSaw]

Originally posted by Sandman
They can move to more competitive states.

Get that tongue out of your cheek.  You don't know where it's been.

[Sandman]

If competition is good for the marketplace, why can't it be so for education as well?

States should compete.