Author Topic: DB601A and Aa?  (Read 731 times)

Offline Knegel

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DB601A and Aa?
« on: March 05, 2006, 10:34:17 AM »
Hi,

dod someone know the differents between this two engines and when the Aa got introduced??


Greetings,

Offline HoHun

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Re: DB601A and Aa?
« Reply #1 on: March 05, 2006, 02:30:42 PM »
Hi Knegel,

>dod someone know the differents between this two engines and when the Aa got introduced??

The DB601A-1 came with two different superchargers, the old version with 4.0 km full throttle height and the new version with 4.5 km full throttle height.

During the attack on France, the old version was definitely in use as the French captured a Me 109E-3 equipped with it.

During the Battle of Britain, the new version was definitely in use in the Me 110 and Me 109 as the British had captured one example of the former equipped with the new type, and re-fitted the captured French Me 109E (which had been transferred into British hands) with a new type supercharger as well.

I suspect both versions were used alongside each other for a while, but I have no idea of when the change-over began and when it was finished.

The DB601Aa apparently was produced alongside the DB601A-1 even before the war began. Butch's research indicates that about one third of the engines produced (if I remember correctly) were DB601Aa and two thirds DB601A-1. (Best ask Butch directly for details.)

Technically, the DB601Aa differs by allowing operation at higher boost pressures, yielding more power. What I only realized due to Elkaskone's recent posts is that the DB601Aa seems to have had a supercharger equivalent to the DB601A-1 (4.5 km) from the beginning, or that the power table and the power graph is describing the capabilities with the 4.5 km full throttle height supercharger.

To round off the discussion, the DB601N was introduced just before the Battle of Britain and equipped one Gruppe of JG 26 during the battle. The engine was quite a bit more powerful than the DB601A-1 and Aa, but it was only available in large numbers after the battle had ended. (Originally, the Zerstörer units hab been scheduled for priority conversion to the new engine, but when they proved worthless as escort fighters, the Me 109 got priority instead.)

Regards,

Henning (HoHun)

Offline butch2k

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Re: Re: DB601A and Aa?
« Reply #2 on: March 09, 2006, 12:59:27 PM »
Quote


Technically, the DB601Aa differs by allowing operation at higher boost pressures, yielding more power. What I only realized due to Elkaskone's recent posts is that the DB601Aa seems to have had a supercharger equivalent to the DB601A-1 (4.5 km) from the beginning, or that the power table and the power graph is describing the capabilities with the 4.5 km full throttle height supercharger.


Could you point me to this post ?

in the DB601Aa/Ba EinbauMappe the engine is described as : Viertakt-einspritzmotor mit zwillingmagnetzünder und mitteldrucklader für Nennleistunghöhe = 3.7km und Dauerleistunghöhe = 4.5km. The copy being dated August 1939.

Olivier

Offline Bruno

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DB601A and Aa?
« Reply #3 on: March 09, 2006, 02:10:35 PM »
I believe HoHun maybe referring to this thread:

Climbrate/climbspeed/time to hight???

Offline gripen

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DB601A and Aa?
« Reply #4 on: March 09, 2006, 02:36:23 PM »
Well, the graphs and spec sheets are showing roughly 30ps difference at FTH at about same power settings. But the spec sheets and graphs seem to be a bit contradictory too (uncertainty on RPM).

gripen

Offline Knegel

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DB601A and Aa?
« Reply #5 on: March 10, 2006, 01:30:48 AM »
Hi Butch,

i guess Hohun was comparing the '5min power' of the A-1 with the 'combat/climb' of the Aa, which was similar and did lead to the conclusion of the same supercharger.

So it could have been the same supercharger, but with enhanced boost it have a lower full throttle height. At least the curve also dont fit to the early A curve.

btw. whats about the exhaust thrust and increased full throttle hight due to Staudruck?

They did test exhaust thrust power at 600km/h of 70-150PS, not realy a values that is unimportant.
How the exhaustthrust influence the power at more slow speed? I thought exhaust thrust is relative constant, similar to the jet thrust, no?

Whats about the exhaust thrust and Staudruck in relation to other engines/planes (Spit, P51, FW190, La5/7 etc)?

Up to 150PS make a huge different, same like a increased full throttle hight of maybe 1000m due to Staudruck.

Greetings, Knegel

Offline HoHun

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DB601A and Aa?
« Reply #6 on: March 10, 2006, 03:28:21 AM »
Hi Knegel,

>i guess Hohun was comparing the '5min power' of the A-1 with the 'combat/climb' of the Aa, which was similar and did lead to the conclusion of the same supercharger.

No, I was comparing the 5 min power ratings:

http://hometown.aol.de/HeRuch/DB601A.png

Regards,

Henning (HoHun)

Offline gripen

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DB601A and Aa?
« Reply #7 on: March 10, 2006, 06:42:50 AM »
Hm... the only relevant way to compare engines is using same rpm at FTH (or above FTH, not below). The 2400rpm line for the DB601A-1 shows roughly 960-970ps at 4500m and for the DB601Aa 2400rpm line shows roughly 1000ps at 4500m.

But as noted above, the values in the spec sheets are contradictory...

gripen

Offline joeblogs

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Re: DB601A and Aa?
« Reply #8 on: March 14, 2006, 12:43:21 PM »
The only difference I could find was in full throttle height at rated (not military) power: 13,500 ft for the -A and 16,400 for the -Aa. There may have been a difference in fuel used.

-Blogs


Quote
Originally posted by Knegel
Hi,

dod someone know the differents between this two engines and when the Aa got introduced??


Greetings,

Offline Knegel

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DB601A and Aa?
« Reply #9 on: March 15, 2006, 12:42:42 AM »
Hi,

i think thats already the different between DB601A and DB601A-1.

The Aa seems to have a full throttle hight somewhere between the A and A-1. At least the curves we have show a power of the Aa in high alt, a bit below the A-1, but above the A.

In the engine describtion i cant see a different between the A-1 and Aa.

All this is very confusing for me.

Greetings,

Knegel

Offline joeblogs

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DB601A and Aa?
« Reply #10 on: March 15, 2006, 05:44:41 AM »
The only other thing I noticed is that the two engines have the same dry weight.

-blogs


Quote
Originally posted by Knegel
Hi,

i think thats already the different between DB601A and DB601A-1.

The Aa seems to have a full throttle hight somewhere between the A and A-1. At least the curves we have show a power of the Aa in high alt, a bit below the A-1, but above the A.

In the engine describtion i cant see a different between the A-1 and Aa.

All this is very confusing for me.

Greetings,

Knegel