Strengths of the P-47

[republic]

I was watching Legends of Airpower on the Military channel and they were covering Gabby Gabreski who logged many kills in the P-47.

As far as ground attack I adore the P-47, but in a dogfight (with a competent opponent) I have yet to score a victory.  I think a large reason is that most of AH combat tends to be near or on the deck where the P-47 begins to feel like I'm flying a 737 in MS Flight Simulator.

Are there any advantages the P-47 has at low alt, other than it's ability to take damage?

[toon]

u need e...which is speed or altitude.altitude is potential e because it can be turned into speed by lowering your nose. you're right ..a p-47 on the deck with little e is a dead p-47. go to the T.A. and practice with it.use a notch of flaps when you turn or go over the top.there is almost always a trainer or someone with more exp. in the T.A. to help you.and remeber ..as a guideline fish dont run and lions dont fly.if you want to turn fight grab a turn fiter of choice.boom and zoom is a totally different animal. S~

[Oldman731]

Originally posted by republic
Are there any advantages the P-47 has at low alt, other than it's ability to take damage?

Flaps.
Guns.
More flaps.

Just remember that it IS a P-47, so you can't raise the nose as much as you'd like to.

- oldman

[Max]

One thing the P-47 does best is dive. Dive in;climb out, repeat. Anys sustained turnfite on the deck will result in a quick trip to the tower.

[Pooface]

find yucca, he turnfights spits in his 47!

they can turn great on the deck if you want them to aswell. i frequently get into stall fights on the deck in furballs with spits and niks. just go with the flaps

great plane. it may be a huge plane, and it may weigh more than some light bombers, but it does more than you would think!

[Max]

I forgot all about YUCCA

[Krusty]

FLying a P47 isn't so much about flying to its strengths, as it is avoiding its weaknesses.

Weakness: Heavy as hell. Avoid it by: taking light gas and DTs, drop DTs, fight, rtb. Take 6 guns and/or light ammo (less weight).

Weakness: Sluggish. Avoid it by: Keeping a minimum altitude to dive away with (to regain speed/E), or by staying fast or by -- get this -- flying very slowly (makes the enemy have to work to get a shot on you while you're already right where you want to be to shoot them, something like that).

[bozon]

P47s can't really turn, and even the magical flaps wouldn't help you. What it can do really well is give the illusion of turning well.

The combination of high wingloading, elevator authority and very good stability allow you to go from 400 to 200 mph with the jerk of the stick. This means that not only will spitfires tend to overshoot you, you'll also quicly place yourself inside their turning circle while yourself making a smaller radius turn (due to the loss of speed). What happens is that the spit will not be able to point at you making him feel that you are out turning it, while in practice he's flying around you and into your guns.

It will be easier to describe with a drawing, but I'l try anyway. Imagine two planes flying around the same circle at the same speed (and same G), suddenly one reduces the speed but keeps the same G load. Now the circles will be one inside the other and not less important - not co-centric. The circle center of the P47 will be displaced backwards. The effect of the displacement is that in order to bring your guns on the spit in front you need to turn less degrees. Or if the spit is doing the chasing, he'll need to turn much more than you to bring guns to bear.

Untill you both are slow...

The other thing P47s do well beside burning E is scissors - especially rolling scissors. Good roll rate at all speeds and slow speeds handeling along a line combine to make it a great scissor machine.

Raanan

[YUCCA]

bozon hit nail on the head.

[republic]

Scissors are something I definately need to work on, that and the offensive barrel roll...I can't seem to nail either one sucessfully on a regular basis.

Thanks for all the responses fellas.

[Krusty]

One other thought...

The P47 has a butt-load of ammo. It's got 4 different ammo loadout options. Now, some take the light load (whether "light" means less ammo per gun, less guns, or both) in order to knife fight better. However if you're not planning on tight edge-of-stall knife fights, you might want to take the full guns package and try it out. It's an awesome amount of firepower if you land even a snapshot.

[dhaus]

Balsy works a 47 by doing low yo yos, seeming to turn inside a spit. It took me a few fights with him to realize you can't chase him and turn with him on his six, cause he literally reverses that jug in about 10 yards - coming back down on your cockpit with 8 50s.  I'm guessing he goes full flap at the top of the yo yo to reverse.  I have not been able to pull that off.

[Zazen13]

Originally posted by bozon
P47s can't really turn, and even the magical flaps wouldn't help you. What it can do really well is give the illusion of turning well.

The combination of high wingloading, elevator authority and very good stability allow you to go from 400 to 200 mph with the jerk of the stick. This means that not only will spitfires tend to overshoot you, you'll also quicly place yourself inside their turning circle while yourself making a smaller radius turn (due to the loss of speed). What happens is that the spit will not be able to point at you making him feel that you are out turning it, while in practice he's flying around you and into your guns.

It will be easier to describe with a drawing, but I'l try anyway. Imagine two planes flying around the same circle at the same speed (and same G), suddenly one reduces the speed but keeps the same G load. Now the circles will be one inside the other and not less important - not co-centric. The circle center of the P47 will be displaced backwards. The effect of the displacement is that in order to bring your guns on the spit in front you need to turn less degrees. Or if the spit is doing the chasing, he'll need to turn much more than you to bring guns to bear.

Untill you both are slow...

The other thing P47s do well beside burning E is scissors - especially rolling scissors. Good roll rate at all speeds and slow speeds handeling along a line combine to make it a great scissor machine.

Raanan

Really nice description...If newer players can understand and apply what he wrote here you'll immediately be in a higher echelon of Fighterdom. Recognize not only how to do it yourself in planes like the P47, but also when other people are doing it to you and counter. Too many people in the MA are what I call E scrooges. That is to say they are afraid to chop throttle or drop some flaps to maintain angles, in other words they're easy meat for anyone who knows how to force an overshoot situation. This is especially true of people who tend to fly planes that hold their E extremely well like the Spit or La7. Don't be afraid to get Co-E/Co-Speed in these types of planes they almost invariably accelerate and climb better so you'll be able to regain E if necessary at a later point in the engagement.



Zazen

[Krusty]

Zazen I think they do it because of the 5 that are closing in behind them, not the one that's dead meat in front of them

However you're right on that point. Don't be afraid to chop throttle! Just don't be afraid to die if ya do, either!

[Zazen13]

Originally posted by Krusty
Zazen I think they do it because of the 5 that are closing in behind them, not the one that's dead meat in front of them

However you're right on that point. Don't be afraid to chop throttle! Just don't be afraid to die if ya do, either!

Yup, there's definately a time and place NOT to chop. Over-committing one's E in a many vs. many or one vs. many situation is usually a fatal mistake. But, generally speaking, lack of throttle control is perhaps the easiest thing to learn that makes you a better pilot and at the same time the most lacking skill of the majority of pilots in the air. Aside from gunnery,  throttle and flap control is the biggest difference between a poor-mediocre pilot and a good-superlative pilot. The majority of poor pilots fly and fight with throttle firewalled at 100% regardless of the situation of the engagment. That just makes them meat on the table for a more wise opponent, even if he's in a vastly inferior plane or tactical situation.

Zazen