Author Topic: Pilot is too stiff. (Read 1102 times)

Morpheus · « **on:** March 10, 2006, 12:17:25 PM »

When you are flying and you pull 4 or 5 G's you sink down in the seat. Alot more than is seen in game. Side to side with rudder.... you get tossed left to right alot more in real life than in game. Even a basic aliron roll will shift your head around in real life... But not so much in game. This is easily seen by the gunsite moving very little when under higher G loads and other forces such as side to side induced by rudder.

IMO the pilot should be alot more "loose" in there. It is like his head is strapped in along with his body. You can pull G's and kick full rudder left or right all day long and still maintain a line of sight with the gunsite and make shot after shot. The pilots neck is to uber.

Krusty · « **Reply #1 on:** March 10, 2006, 12:23:24 PM »

Well, in real life you don't glue your face to a gunsight and only fly looking through it. I think this concession was made simply because this is a game, and the various effects have to be balanced. I wouldn't mind seeing a little more motion, but game-wise I don't want it to be too extreme.

It would give me motion sickness!

Mustaine · « **Reply #2 on:** March 10, 2006, 12:30:11 PM »

i'm no pilot, and only flown in a "small" plane once so i am spitballing here...

it would be my guess that combat pilots were not only trained in keeping their heads more stationary than the average person, they also had been through it more and strengthened their necks.

i wouls also guess the restraint system for a combat pilot woube be much more secure than the average joe because of the extreme manuevers they would be performing.

i could be totally off, but thats my thinking. granted there would be head and eye movement, and i agree AH head bobble is very minimal. i think seeing the trackIR films where the head is almost never "centered" on the recticle is the most realistic, but not everybody has the resources for trackIR.

Morpheus · « **Reply #3 on:** March 10, 2006, 12:32:10 PM »

trackIR doesnt (to my knowledge) show forces on a pilot... especially head and neck movements.

StarOfAfrica2 · « **Reply #4 on:** March 10, 2006, 12:33:09 PM »

I thought this thread was going to be about porno noseart or something.

Ah well.

Curval · « **Reply #5 on:** March 10, 2006, 01:07:40 PM »

A pilot can never be too stiff.

Kermit de frog · « **Reply #6 on:** March 10, 2006, 01:49:13 PM »

With TrackIR, some headmovement does occur because when I give full rudder, my head does move slightly back and alittle to the side. Also when I roll my aircraft, sometimes I roll my head a degree or two. Also when I yaw quickly, my head does roll to the left or right a few degrees also. It maybe also be due to the off-height position of my sensor. I will somehow mount my monitor to be lower and make my sensor the same height as my head.

This game has never been more challenging thanks to my trackir and pedals.

crowMAW · « **Reply #7 on:** March 10, 2006, 01:59:55 PM »

Well, Va doesn't seem to really be modeled either. You can occasionally snap a wing if you input full deflection at high speed, but for the most part you can fully deflect any of the control surfaces at speeds up to Vne.

FiLtH · « **Reply #8 on:** March 10, 2006, 02:38:33 PM »

Eh..compared to other things this isnt that important to me. I do see what you are saying...it does seem like our bodies take incredible punishment without exhaustion.

Meatwad · « **Reply #9 on:** March 10, 2006, 04:00:37 PM »

Pilot must be taking viagra before he takes off

phookat · « **Reply #10 on:** March 10, 2006, 04:56:10 PM »

Nah, I don't think this is a good idea. IRL you feel the movement as your view changes, and therefore what you see makes sense to your brain. If the camera bounces around in game "realistically", the net effect would be less realistic.

Masherbrum · « **Reply #11 on:** March 10, 2006, 05:52:34 PM »

Why don't all of the regulars in the MA, purchase two Warbirds from WWII and have mock dogfights?

Karaya

eilif · « **Reply #12 on:** March 10, 2006, 09:46:12 PM »

head movement is really the only visual way we can "feel" our planes, i too find ah's a bit stiff, but isnt this going to change in combat tour as our pilots get stronger from more expirience? i remember something being brought up concerning this.

rv6 · « **Reply #13 on:** March 13, 2006, 01:33:11 PM »

I've flown many times with AirCombat USA 1v1 in SIA-Marchetti Italian dog-fighters. RL planes with little razor wings and high-perfomance engines. Yes, (per somebodys comment above) you DO strap in as tight as you can pull the 5-point military harness over your parachute straps. VERY constrictive, but holds you in place when inverted and you push the stick forward (quite a rush).

As per head movement under G forces? IMHO? Ain't much differance than what you see on an AH screen.. perhapds slightly deeper "sit" under +G?

Side to side? (as someone said) didn't seem to be a real "head-banger" extreme, even in a unexpected snap-roll,,? Again, my opinion from watching my own "replay" films after ACUSA engagments.

Bear in mind that you're wearing a military helmet, also strapped on TIGHT, and the lower ear area of the helmet will squash down on your shoulder tops under heavy G, and somewhat actually SUPPORT your head..

Playing aerial lazer tag in real dogfighter crotch-rockets, is pretty intense. In a 1v1 both about the same skill level? It always comes out as to WHOM CAN TOLLERATE THE MOST, SUSTAINED G's.

I've won more engagements by being able to out-G the next guy, than by sheer skill. You know the gig is up, when you see the other planes bubble canopy splattered with breakfast, and the military IP wiping it down.

You both crawl out back at base, drenching wet from squeezed sweat, and feel like you were beaten up by a street gang.

Kinda goes like this for real..

4? 5? 6 sustained G's? Most non-military pros' (armchair aces) can take about 10 or 15 seconds of +5 sustained G's. I've spoken with the ex-military fighter jocks who ride with us about this. They say it's a practiced, "accumlative" resistance thing. Ie: The more often you fly under heavy G's, the more you can tolerate.

About to lock onto the enemy, after a 15 minute loop-dee-loop special??

Pull, pull, pull the stick a little more.. the big HUD glass-sight is only a few degrees from the tail of your adversary.. Take slack out of trigger.

You squash down in the seat,, and you feel the skin around your cheeks start to sag.. +4 Gs?

Pull the stick a little more, now on +5g's! Your lower jaw is pulled down, mouth open, helmet now squashed down on shoulder tops. You lift shoulders trying to relieve some of the helmet pressure, neck is locked straight up n' down, you can NOT look UP anymore, because neck muscles can not support the pressure of skull & helmet anymore.
(to see what it feels like? sit in hi-back chair at home. lean head up and over backwards, look at ceiling, as in the "Up" view in AH. Have somebody get behind the chair, and grab you around the top forehead and pull back with all their body weight. NOW.. try and move your head down).

THAT, is +6gs wearing a helmet.

Soooo.. the plane ahead of you is now only a measly 4 degrees above the HUD pipper!

Pull back a sk'osh more.. You start to see little yellow stars, like when you rub your eyes too hard?.. The roar of that wide opened engine gets softer, and you can hardly hear it anymore.. Things are getting real quiet.

You just move your eyes up to look for the HUD site and the enemy plane is ALMOST THERE.. another 1 degree!!

Pull back one last little yank..

Your eyes only see in the middle.. the edges are dark and fuzzy (just like in the AH SIM!) ..

6 and 1/2 G's..

The little yellow stars fill your vision, and turn to foggy white.. the last thing you actually "feel" is the burbbling of the Marchettis' little razor wings entering the pre-high-speed-stall "buffet".. you feel it in the stick, just before you go to sleep.

The plane departs flight, goes ballistic, and does a full snap-roll before the ex-military fighter instructor pilot takes control..

You wake up about 4 seconds after G's are released, and you hear this on the radio..

"GUNS, GUNS, GUNS, Good kill, breaking off left.." (you loose)

Your neck & shoulders are KILLING YOU, sweat is dripping out the helmet and down your face like a water faucet, and you lost the first engagment.

Only 6 more to go, and you'll feel like a new man! (or woman!)

AHahahaa!!

My 2 cents..

~~RV6~~

eilif · « **Reply #14 on:** March 13, 2006, 05:38:07 PM »

if the AH head would roll a bit instead of just always perfectly horizontal with the plane that would really help since thats what real heads do once your torso has moved as much as it can in the straps.