Author Topic: strange, ugly, or experimental WWII planes  (Read 4237 times)

Offline DoKGonZo

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strange, ugly, or experimental WWII planes
« Reply #45 on: March 17, 2006, 07:17:53 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Furball
it also had some of the engine dials on the nacelles because it was so cramped.  IIRC it was to make the frontal profile as small as possible.

it was very unpopular with pilots.

 


All reports I've seen said it was just a miserable bird to fly. Slow, unresponsive, under-powered.

Offline Billy Joe Bob

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« Reply #46 on: March 17, 2006, 08:44:48 PM »
wow there are so many projects in wwII... i woonder what kind of technology there would have been if the war had gone on till '46? the  grizzly looks cool:aok

we have the trifugel and the panzerknacker but where is that russian ramjet prop hybrid?

hey indy what kind of plane is that?

Offline GRUNHERZ

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« Reply #47 on: March 18, 2006, 02:35:07 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Widewing


Beech XA-38 Grizzly.... Powered by two CW R3350 engines, 75mm cannon, two remote turrets... 376 mph at restricted boost, reported to attain 404 mph in WEP. Only two built. End of war meant end of XA-38 development.

My regards,

Widewing


This is such an amazingly outdated design for a 1945 US prototype.

Offline gripen

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« Reply #48 on: March 18, 2006, 06:39:29 AM »
Ah... Bugatti again; strange indeed but IMHO not ugly.

gripen

Offline HoHun

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« Reply #49 on: March 18, 2006, 07:04:35 AM »
Hi Billy,

>we have the trifugel and the panzerknacker but where is that russian ramjet prop hybrid?

It's "Triebflügel" = 'drive wing'.

The Russian type you're thinking off probably is the MiG I-250, but it's really powered by a special jet engine with the compressor driven by a piston engine instead of a turbine. I believe this is called a "thermojet" engine. As the piston engine also drove the propeller, you're right it was a hybrid.

Regards,

Henning (HoHun)

Offline Widewing

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« Reply #50 on: March 18, 2006, 09:35:10 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
This is such an amazingly outdated design for a 1945 US prototype.


The design was ordered in 1943 specifically for tank busting and anti-shipping. It's first flight was in 1944.

While it appears superficially to be a dated design, it really wasn't at all. Actually, it was remarkably innovative in many respects.

Engine selection: Choosing a pair of the big R-3350 engines meant that the aircraft would have tremendous power, 4,600 hp with restricted boost (2,600 rpm @ 45 in/hg), 5,200 hp at full factory rated power (2,800 rpm @ 48 in/hg). Documents describing the initial factory testing of the XA-38 were most recently located in the Walter H. and Olive Ann Beech Collection, which is currently in the custody of the Wichita State University library. Additional AAF test data is stored on microfilm in the National Archives.

Standard gross weight, less external stores was just over 31,000 pounds. This provided a wing loading on par with most late-war fighters. The A-38 employed clever slotted flaps that effectively increased wing area by 20% when fully deployed.

The aircraft was of modular construction, consisting of four major sub-assemblies, plus the weapons module.

Another unique feature allowed for the entire nose mounted weapons package to be removed and replaced in about two hours. The entire nose module of the aircraft was unbolted and could be replaced with various gun packages, including six 20mm cannon or eight .50 caliber Brownings. This would have allowed the aircraft to be tailored for specific missions to a degree not previously seen in the USAAF.

Performance was considerably better than that of the A-26. I have never seen a climb chart for the XA-38, but I have seen pilot comments from the Eglin tests. One pilot stated that it took just over two minutes to reach 5,000 feet from brake release. That should put the XA-38 in the area of 3,000 fpm, again restricting MAP to 45".

A P-47D was used as a chase plane during some of the flight testing. Pilots reported that the XA-38 proved a better climber and was much faster than the Jug below 10,000 feet. A glimpse of this can be found on the USAF Museum site, where they state, "Every means possible was employed to decrease drag, including flush riveting of all exposed skin surfaces. A striking demonstration of the resultant speed was furnished the Army when it assigned one of its fastest fighters to pace the XA-38 for speed calibration tests and found the Beechcraft outdistancing the fighter. "

Also stated is the following: "The Beechcraft Model 28 combined the size of a medium bomber with the speed of the fastest propeller driven fighters of the day. It was highly maneuverable and could take off and land in an area considerably smaller than needed by other airplanes of a comparable size." Pilots at Eglin reported that the XA-38 "turned much tighter circles than the P-38 or P-47."

Overall, the AAF was extremely pleased with the XA-38. However, in selecting the R-3350 engines, Beech found itself with a major problem of availability. Virtually all R-3350 production capacity was earmarked for B-29 production, which had a far greater priority than another medium attack plane. Beech considered a redesign to switch over to the P&W R-2800 C series engine, but the AAF would not allocate the addition funds to finance the change simply because the bulk of production capacity for these engines was assigned to P-47N and F4U-4 production. Moreover, it was recognized that this redesign would push back development at least 9 months, and probably a full year. Both XA-38 prototypes lived out their short lives as test mules. However, they were very highly regarded by the test pilots who flew them.

If we look at the XA-38 within the context of its intended mission, we would see that the XA-38's role was similar to that of the HS 129. Indeed, the XA-38 was to the HS 129 what the P-47M was to the Seversky P-35.

My regards,

Widewing
« Last Edit: March 18, 2006, 11:18:55 AM by Widewing »
My regards,

Widewing

YGBSM. Retired Member of Aces High Trainer Corps, Past President of the DFC, retired from flying as Tredlite.

Offline HoHun

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« Reply #51 on: March 19, 2006, 05:51:44 AM »
Hi Widewing,

>If we look at the XA-38 within the context of its intended mission, we would see that the XA-38's role was similar to that of the HS 129.

Hm, unless it carried heavy armour, which from a quick web search appears not to have been the case, it was not actually in the same class as the Hs 129 but rather in the class of the Mosquito. The XA-38 also employed the latest, most powerful engines that were available (or could have been available, if they hadn't been required for more important projects), while the Hs 129 relied on obsolescent engines "off the French shelf".

>Indeed, the XA-38 was to the HS 129 what the P-47M was to the Seversky P-35.

I could as well claim that the Hs 129 was to the Westland Lysander what the A-10 was to the O-1, but I consider this type of comparison a bit odd :-)

Regards,

Henning (HoHun)

Offline SMIDSY

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« Reply #52 on: March 19, 2006, 05:22:58 PM »
the westland P12 beach-strafing aircraft.

Offline Billy Joe Bob

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« Reply #53 on: March 19, 2006, 06:17:19 PM »
what a completly smurfy plane

Offline indy007

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« Reply #54 on: March 21, 2006, 10:39:49 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Billy Joe Bob
hey indy what kind of plane is that?


Somebody said it, Bugatti. I checked out the version some company made for FS2004... had to be horrendously over modeled. Climbed at 6k fpm past 40k, 400+ mph, and turned like a Spit. You'd think the name Bugatti meant it could defy phsyics.

Now, alot of people here will get their panties in a bunch if you post stuff from Luft46... but this looks like the thread for it, and I dig asymmetrical aircraft :)




Offline gripen

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« Reply #55 on: March 22, 2006, 03:40:43 AM »
The Bugatti was IMHO a beautifull aircraft, but it never flew. Below is one captured from FMS simulator (click picture to see larger image).

gripen



Offline wetrat

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« Reply #56 on: March 22, 2006, 02:32:48 PM »
someone should try to find a Bf-109 "zwilling"... it was 2 109F airframes welded together at the wing and tail. A p-38 knockoff, lol :p
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Offline gear

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« Reply #57 on: March 22, 2006, 03:15:04 PM »
Here's one way to get more speed out of your B17.
This photo was undated and unlabeled.  It is a B-17 with a turbine engine installed in the nose.  My guess it they were testing the turbine engine and needed a large airframe like the B-17s.  They probably took off and landed using the traditional four engines as the primary power.  Once at altitude, they engaged the turbine engine and experimented to determine performance characteristics.

Offline gear

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« Reply #58 on: March 22, 2006, 03:18:09 PM »
As you can see here, this is the reason IJN planes burn so easy.:lol

Offline gripen

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« Reply #59 on: March 22, 2006, 04:58:45 PM »
As I'm in it, yet another sleek racer from late thirties as captured from FMS.

gripen