all forms of welfare have got to go

[Zigrat]

im sick and tired of welfare

my dad owns a small business. he cant get any help. its a meat market/deli, and for that type of business you can't afford to pay more than 8/9 dollars an hour for a clerk. people dont want to work for 9 bucks an hour, and the people you do get are toejamty people who wont show up and/or are lazy. as a consequence, my dad (aged 61 yrs) has to work 80 hour weeks.

he has a couple of part time employees. one of them, who is one of his better employees, wont work more than 2 days a week. why? because if she did, she'd stop getting welfare (too much income). why should she work more when she gets the same amount of money for working 2 days a week as she would get for 5.

screw welfare. america is a rich company, and ANYONE with ambition and drive can make it. if you dont have ambition and drive, well screw you,  i dont wanna pay for you to live. we dont need scumbags in america.

i dont wanna get rid of all types of aid. like for old people, they need help. or kids, them too. but healthy people between 18 and 62 should NEVER get a CENT from the government, other than possibly unemployment insurance, which isnt from the government anyways since employers 3 cents on the dollar of payroll to pay unemployment insurance. i realize it might take a few months to find a job if you loose yours so tahts ok too. but you better go find another, because when your 6 months is up you're gonna be broke.

welfare makes people lazy. mabye if they didnt have that saftey net to fall back onto they would actually get to work.


btw i would support the government enccouraging charitable donations, like mabye offering a 110% writeoff on charitable donations to churches and other charity organizations. im not against charity, but i justthink the government should NOT be providing it.

[Eagler]

first step toward your noble goal is to chase the dumacrats and their partners in crime, the warm and fuzzy media out of D.C. and your wallet. Lower taxes, responsible spending - two ideas which are foreign in the beltway. If you remove the entitlement programs ie welfare, who'll vote for the dems?  

[DingHao2]

im all for removing welfare!

[miko2d]

Zigrat,
 That is one of the problems with democracy and a reason for it's inevitable downfall. People realise that they can vote themselves money and to so to the detriment of economy.

 US welfare recepient has much better standard of living then working professionals in countries like Russia. Still, try talking about limiting that help, and democrats will rip you to pieces.

 miko

[Ripsnort]

For what welfare was intended for back in the 30's and what it is today is about close in comparison as comparing a tax increase to a tax cut.

[john9001]

zigrat, here's a idea , why don't YOU work for your poor old dad for $8 a hour?

[Zigrat]

i work for my dad for free this summer.

well he feeds me. so i guess its not free.

[Zigrat]

btw i think fdr did a good thing implimenting welfare during teh depression. there was a crisis, and no work to bee found. rather than having millions starve like was happening in other countries at the time, he had the govermnet help out. it was appropriate.

the program should have ended with the end of ww2. unfortunately, fdr died and truman was an amazinhunk in my opinion, no where near the man fdr was.

there is no crisis njow. unemployment is like 2%. everywhere you go there are help wanted signs, but not enough ppl to work.

why? because we have able bodied people in america sitting on their tulips collecting money from the government. hey if you are independently wealthy and dont wanna work, fine. but dont get money from the govermnet paying you to do it. its gotta stop.

[StSanta]

Inevitable downfall is stretching it a bit methinks  .

Denmark (and scandinavia in general) has the largest welfare system in the world. I saw some numbers that said that 43% of our tax kroner goes to the welfare system.

Denmark is doing ok internationally, and has done ok overall since the introduction of the welfare system in the midst of last century.

Now, what exactly qualifies as "welfare"? In Denmark, things like financial aid to students do not (I get around 3000 DKK, or $350, a month from the state). But it is a form of welfare.

Supporting education is something I'd always want to do. It's an investment rather than a pure expense. People with higher education tends to up a country's competitiveness, earn more money (and therefore pay more taxes) and generally have much less of a need for receiving cash for nothing (i.e the "welfare" system in the more common sense of the phrase).

There's of course the added ideological bonus that it gives you the right to say "everyone has the same shot at getting an education: those that haven't got one haven't got one because of issues directly relating to the individual in question. It's not the 'same* chance, since we're genetically different and all grow up in different environments, but the chance itself it equal.

Survival help - I'm for that. There should (IMHO) be some kind of mechanism in place that'll on short term help a person out if he or she loses favour on the job market. An example: outdated working skills. let's say a programmer has programmed in pascal all his life, and that the company he is employed by does not send him or her for some up to date training. The language becomes obsolete and with it, the programmer (more or less, at least job opportunities will dwindle). Survival help will be suitable here.

Reeducation is an investment as well. I have no problems paying for this, as again, it leads to a more competitive country with a better economy.

What I *do* have a *major* problem with is that the druggie next door to me gets his rent paid by the states, gets his medicine paid by the state, gets "pocket money" pfrom the state, food from the state, free bus rides from the state and overall has a much larger disposable income than I have. I'm working very hard to get ends to meet; and at the start of each semester I have book expenses of up to $300. I'm already living below the poverty line, but that's all the backing I can get.

Career welfare people. Weed these people out and you can drop welfare spendings in half. In political discussions with my Danish friends, I aruge this; but to my dismay, it seems I'm a single uncompassionate capitalistic swinedog surrounded by those with more "human" values. Apparently they mistake my lack of desire to pay for freeloaders for cynicism and no compassion.

Another aspect of the welfare system is it helps to reduce the crime rate through levelling out income inequality, a factor that most sociologists and crimonologists agree is important in terms of crime rate. Breing on welfare doesn't stop my druggie neighbor from committing crimes; he was just sentenced for drug possession, armed robbery and shop lifting. So he got 6 months on parole and will now undergo a psychiatric evaluation in order to see what treatment fits him. The dude has been a criminal addict since he was 15; he ain't gonna chance. Stop wasting money.

So, personal anecdotes mixed with some logic has given me the following philosophy: there *should* be help for pople on dire straits - it can happen to anyone. One should make *investments* into the people of a nation. but one should *not* overdo it, and there *has* to be a philosophy of "we'll help you help yourself, but we'll be damned if we let you mooch off us". In Denmark there currently isn't.

That being said, access to university and so forth without having to pay tuition is one of the strong points of this nation. Access to education should not be limited by no access to cash.

*Note* It is possible to work and study at the same time. You try doing it while being enrolled where I'm at; after a full day at the place, rthere's 2 hours of problem solving and then another 3 hours of preparation for the next day. I'm exhausted; some might be able to pull it off, but I'm not, and I know most are similar to me.

[zapkin]

Just curious Zig. Is your father willing to provide her with income barely adequite to survive on + medical benefits? If not, then you need to rethink your criticism of this lady. If she has kids, then she NEEDS medicaid, and i doubt that your father is going to pay his employees and provide benefits. Children have alot of health issues (especially when young) and I think many mothers stay on assistance because the bottom line is that their standard of living is higher than it would be working for chump change and trying to pay for health insurance. You wanna complain? How about all the sickeningly greedy rich folks who accumulate more money than they or their families will ever spend and only donate enough to charity so that they dont feel so goshdarn greedy and evil. It seems easy to blame the welfarites for everything, and you better believe that the wealthy would rather have you blame poor people (who are already screwed) than to look towards them and their sickening greed.

no i am not a socialist, but I have lived in poverty and I know that being on welfare is not living the good life. Dont expect people to be happy working their tulips off for barely enough money to survive...oh maybe its more "noble" but dude...poverty is worse when you are busting your bellybutton for nothing.

I feel sorry for poor people and the lot they have been dealt. I refuse to blame the already screwed poor (whether on welfare or not). Society views them as unworthy, which I think perpetuates the whole mess.

Lets stop villainizing the poor...they are
ALREADY SCREWED DUDE...

[Zigrat]

ok i am not against temporarily unemployment benefits for people who loose their jobs, like is the case now (6 months benefit, which is more than enough time to get back on your feet)

im not against helping the elderly with medecation costs, or feeding children.

im not against helping with education costs for higher education, provided there is a minimum gpa requirement for continued assistance.

im against able bodied people aged 18-62 collecting money from the government when they could be working.

btw yes the person in question does have kids, 4 of them i think. by 3 different fathers if i remember correctly. she is 32, and has a 16 year old son i think. looks like she cast her own lot in life, noone told her to be having sex when she was 15 years old. my sister just graduated valedictorian of her class, and got a full scholarship to college. SHE cast her lot in life, too. Guess who will end up better off.

[Zigrat]

in the united states, as rich a country as it is, people are only poor because of choices they have made. i have pity for those born in less rich lands than ours and who don't have the opportinuty to succeed. in america everyone has that chance.

[batdog]

Welfare doesnt suck... the abusers of it do. We've catered to an entire welfare society who routinely used every loophole in the book to get more money...ie more kids...

xBAT

P.S. If they are gonna collect it I say make them work like hell for it...big rocks to little rocks. This work will suck so bad they be like... I gotta get off this welfare sh(*.

[Eagler]

zapkin
The problem is many if not most of the receivers of welfare are playing the system, just like the lady in Zigs case. Just about everyone starts at the bottom, i.e. $3.75 an hour, 19 years old, married with pregnant 18 year old wife = me. Too sit on your bellybutton and watch Jerry Springer instead of busting it and getting ahead is the easy way and a road too well traveled by many welfare recipients.
The system is dated, abused and corrupt and needs to be re-vamped. Many states, including FL, now have time limits to force these ppl to find employement. These programs include training and "entry - level" job placement. No, sorry they don't start at 50k a year.
Welfare should be a temporary condition, not a way of life. Don't try to turn this into a have against the have nots class war. I WAS a have not 23 years ago...now I'm a "have some" but didn't get there by sitting on my arse watchin tv, drinking beer and waiting on my food stamps and next gov check  

[LePaul]

Its another example of people putting me, myself and I before anything else.  How dare you tell me to work full time and try to provide my *own* insurance and such.  I've been there and down it, worked 2 jobs so I could afford a car payment, health insurance and such.  Plus, most employers have access to health plans, but the employees must have been there for over a year.

The problem, you see, is the ease in which people can apply for and get these benefits.  I remember people that had food stamps could only buy essentials...no chips, alcohol and such like that.  Now, heck they cant use them at the local SUBWAY restaurant.  There is no feeling humble about asking for help...people INSIST that the goverment help them because its that "we deserve it" attitude.

Maine has the highest tax rate in the nation, according to a new article that ran this week.  14.9% income tax.  Add that to the Federal and its just a lot of dough to be spending out in taxes.  

I feel for your Dad, I've been in the situation where I've wanted to hired part time help.  Asides going through the enormity of taxes, FICA, workers comp and everything else, its a hassle.  Its amazing how many people will apply for a job, just to sign their little welfare book to show they did look for a job that week.

I really wish more people had a work ethic versus a leaching one.  But that's what it is.  Listen to the radio, that kook is out there plugging his book to show people how to take advantage of goverment programs to get free money, and milk an already abused system.