Unmanned drone guns only fire at 3 second burst intervals

[dizman]

A little off topic but back in the day, I remember hearing in real life, it was crazy as heck to go headon with a bomber formation. I heard this in a documentary about the Battle of Britain. They said it was nearly suicidal. Now with all the people saying that fighters should attack bombers from the front and sides(I agree with the sides) is this really true, or an unproven guess?

[DoKGonZo]

Originally posted by Krusty
...

If bombers cruise fighters actually become a threat, because they are now travelling much faster. In this situation bombers would NEED 36-frikking-guns.

...  

Yeah ... what he said.

[ChopSaw]

Originally posted by Krusty
On the one hand I can see your point. On the other I want the SOB to run out of ammo faster, so I'd say in general I'm against it. It's still got 36 guns all aiming for 1 players's pipper (not all at once, but still, 36-frikkin-guns), even if some of them staggered, it would still be way more lethal than it ever was in real life.

I think the problem with bombers isn't their guns, at the moment. I think the problem with bombers is their constant 300mph speeds and the fact that they outrun most fighters in this game. If we impose stronger fuel burn on bombers (only bombers, like fighters still have 2x but bombers have 4x or 6x) then they HAVE to conserve gas, which means cruising, which returns bombers to a more historical footing.

If bombers cruise fighters actually become a threat, because they are now travelling much faster. In this situation bombers would NEED 36-frikking-guns.

So I say the problem is not the guns, but the "ludicrous speed!" setting they all fly at 100% of the time. Hell the only time any bomber EVER throttles back is to stay in formation or to land (if they even bother to do either).

Where do you pull this stuff from?  Outruns most fighters in the game?!  Even a Hurricane can catch us.

The idea of increasing the burn multiplier over that of fighters two to three times as much is ludicrous.  Next you'll be saying there should be an altitude cap for bombers.  I can only guess you're trolling.

The only reason fighters aren't a threat is because most of them are incompetent when attacking bombers.  Most of them come up one at a time and crawl up on our six.  I've even slowed down for them to do so.  Even if by some large stretch, HTC did slow the bombers down, fighters would still bite it and for the same reasons they do now.

I predominately fly bombers.  I do occasionally up a fighter for bombers and I'm talking about bombers with some altitude.  I'm not very good with fighters, but I kill them and land every time.  Learn to do it right, Krusty and stop trying to blame your problems on bombers.

[ChopSaw]

Originally posted by dizman
A little off topic but back in the day, I remember hearing in real life, it was crazy as heck to go headon with a bomber formation. I heard this in a documentary about the Battle of Britain. They said it was nearly suicidal. Now with all the people saying that fighters should attack bombers from the front and sides(I agree with the sides) is this really true, or an unproven guess?

I'm not a big expert on this stuff, but I've read some of the stuff some of our own experts have to say on the subject.  Apparently, one of the more successful tactics of some squads in the LW was to HO.  Not many in here do it so I don't get much practice at defending with the bombers guns.  Those that have done this to me have survived and gotten hits on my planes.  Whatever you have to say about it, it's a far better attack than sitting on a bombers six.

[Masherbrum]

Originally posted by ChopSaw
Where do you pull this stuff from?  Outruns most fighters in the game?!  Even a Hurricane can catch us.

The idea of increasing the burn multiplier over that of fighters two to three times as much is ludicrous.  Next you'll be saying there should be an altitude cap for bombers.  I can only guess you're trolling.

The only reason fighters aren't a threat is because most of them are incompetent when attacking bombers.  Most of them come up one at a time and crawl up on our six.  I've even slowed down for them to do so.  Even if by some large stretch, HTC did slow the bombers down, fighters would still bite it and for the same reasons they do now.

I predominately fly bombers.  I do occasionally up a fighter for bombers and I'm talking about bombers with some altitude.  I'm not very good with fighters, but I kill them and land every time.  Learn to do it right, Krusty and stop trying to blame your problems on bombers.

You are aware that when the Ki67 gets up to speed it is EXTREMELY tough to catch up to, right?  Forget it if you have to both grab and climb.   For someone who "seems to know all about buffs", you should have know this.  

Karaya

[Masherbrum]

Originally posted by dizman
A little off topic but back in the day, I remember hearing in real life, it was crazy as heck to go headon with a bomber formation. I heard this in a documentary about the Battle of Britain. They said it was nearly suicidal. Now with all the people saying that fighters should attack bombers from the front and sides(I agree with the sides) is this really true, or an unproven guess?

JG26 (Abbeville Kids) HO'd in 109's and later in 190's.  They were distinguished by the "yellow prop nose".   They brought more fear into the Bombers flying into Europe, by using this tactic to GREATT SUCCESS.

Still in AH2, the HO is the best method to counter Buffs, then the next vulnerable is from right underneath them.  Next, would be to play the angle game from above.  

Be warned ChopSaw is an expert in the Bomber, even though I cannot recall a kill by him of me.   It appears he used to fly under another name perhaps.  

Karaya

PS - I'm just a Furballing, fighter, gv jockey who knows nothing.

[RAIDER14]

why give the fighter a 3 second window to fight back the bomber is already at a disadvantage

[B@tfinkV]

Originally posted by E25280
...........
Bat -- I had thought about this too, but never suggested it, making it an automatic good idea as far as I am concerned.  But part of my reasoning was that overall the ammo would last longer, giving the bombers more time to defend themselves.  I see this as an advantage to the bombers, not the furballers.

The only additional thing is that disabled / out of ammo gun positions should not be manable -- i.e. once the tail position in the lead bomber is out of ammo, you should not be able to continue to use it as the aiming point of the remaining guns (this has been suggested in the past, I know).

good point about the killed gunner. looks like you and I are the sole candidates for the burst idea though



Also good opinions against the idea in general Dok/Krusty.




I suppose the question come round again to the Realism VS Enjoyment catch 22.

[ChopSaw]

Originally posted by Masherbrum
You are aware that when the Ki67 gets up to speed it is EXTREMELY tough to catch up to, right?  Forget it if you have to both grab and climb.   For someone who "seems to know all about buffs", you should have know this.

Yes.  I am aware of this.  I am also aware of the Arado which is the third fastest aircraft in the game behind the Me262 and Me163.  Are you aware this thread is about heavy bombers?
 
Bye the way, it was you who bragged in a post that you shot down buffs "all the time" in a Hurricane..  One of the slowest fighters in the game.  If you can do it in that I would have thought a faster fighter would be no problem for you.

[ChopSaw]

Originally posted by Masherbrum
Be warned ChopSaw is an expert in the Bomber, even though I cannot recall a kill by him of me.   It appears he used to fly under another name perhaps.

Interesting to know that out of the hundreds who play, someone has to shoot you down to be an expert.  Also of interest; I've never said I was an expert in buffs.  I do seem to know more than you on the subject, though.

[ChopSaw]

Originally posted by B@tfinkV
I suppose the question come round again to the Realism VS Enjoyment catch 22.

You guys want realism?  Why didn't you say so?  My suggestion is; as aircraft are destroyed at the front, they have to be replaced by aircraft ferried in from the rear of the country or from factories.  Set it up so real players, not AI, have to do the ferrying.  That'd be real.  How about all guns in the game seize up if you fire them for too long a burst without sufficient cool down.  That'd be real too.  How about pilots who die have to travel from the rear of the map to the front before they can fly there.  How about when a fighter plane catches on fire it explodes soon thereafter instead of flying around for 5 minutes.  This is fun.  Just let me know if you need anymore.  I've got plenty.

Orrrrrrr........you could always try learning how to kill buffs instead of trying to figure out ways to nerf them so they'll be easy mode targets.  Just a thought.

[ChopSaw]

Originally posted by RAIDER14
why give the fighter a 3 second window to fight back the bomber is already at a disadvantage

There isn't anything I don't like about that sentence.

[straffo]

Normal, you are a bomber pilot.

And
so you have nothing against bomber flying way faster than during WWII
so you have nothing against bomber able to put several guns on one target
so you have nothing against bomber being a stable gun plateform
...

in short you are biased.

Go back to your 25% fuel thread Mister "I fly fighter 1% of my time" so you can explain us again and again  how 25% fuel is more than enought for a fighter.

[B@tfinkV]

Originally posted by ChopSaw


Orrrrrrr........you could always try learning how to kill buffs instead of trying to figure out ways to nerf them so they'll be easy mode targets.  Just a thought.

dont be a mug. I kill buffs just fine.


my view point came from flying in buffs, and it being too easy to kill fighters.

[dizman]

Originally posted by Masherbrum
JG26 (Abbeville Kids) HO'd in 109's and later in 190's.  They were distinguished by the "yellow prop nose".   They brought more fear into the Bombers flying into Europe, by using this tactic to GREATT SUCCESS.

 

I love misinformation, thanks for clearing that up. Straffo, as far as I know bombers never flew alone(unless maybe the Mosquito bomber did, dunno) and when only one plane entered their area of fire they all opened fire to rip that sob to shreds. The game tries to reproduce that the best it can. A bomber is also not a stable gun platform, it can move, also it can be affected by cannon fire shooting off alierons and the such. I also believe that yes the bombers are probably faster than in real life but they need it, who really wants to go on a 3 hour mission to bomb a town, not me. I barely fly bombers anymore so i would actually be more fighter biased than anything.