Excellent article on Arab vs West relations

[Eagler]

Originally posted by Nashwan:

More Israeli toejam stirring?

Yea I know why they did it. Abu Ali Mustafa was a real peace loving guy. Real crime he got his. Sounds like the same thing we are trying to do to ole Bin and his gang.

Guess it depends on who you'd sit down to dinner with? A group which screams everyday for your death, the death of your family and all of your countrymen or those that seem to hold many of the same values you and your (most) of your countrymen do. Can't see how anyone still supports a bunch of screaming terrorist whose only goal is to eliminate those that don't agree with them twisting their faith to fit their needs.

[Nashwan]

And the Israelis are a real peace loving people? Not if you're a Palestinian.
Just about every senior politician in Israel has their terrorist past. Sharon would be a war criminal with an international arrest warrant for his complicity in Shabra and Shatila, if he wasn't Israeli, and therefore an ally.
You might feel comfortable sitting down to dinner with people who murder their opponents, with the leaders of the only country in the world to officially sanction torture of prisoners, with men like Rehavam Zeevi who has described the Palestinians as "lice", and called for their deportation from the country they were born in. I wouldn't.
Zeevi would have been lablled a Nazi if he was anything but Jewish, and any government which included him ostracised (remember the fuss over Haider in Austria?)
A lot of innocent Israelis have died at the hands of Palestinian terrorists, Zeevi wasn't one of them.
A lot of innocent Palestinians have died at the hands of Israeli terrorists, and more will die as a result of Zeevi's death.
There will never be peace in the region, or an end to Arab terrorism worldwide, until Israel is prepared to make concessions to the Palestinians. Electing a man like Sharon shows they're not ready yet, and perhaps they never will be whilst they have a security guarantee from the US.
There will be distrust and resentment against the west in many Muslim societies for a long time to come, but Israel's actions are one of the root causes, and until Israel is prepared to come to terms with the Palestinians, that distrust and hatred will keep getting worse, not better.

[Eagler]

Originally posted by Nashwan:

There will never be peace in the region, or an end to Arab terrorism worldwide, until Israel is prepared to make concessions to the Palestinians.

What kind of "concessions", mass suicide??
As I understand it, the crazy Palestinians, you know - the ones you see dancing and screaming in the streets, will not be satisfied until the last Israeli is dead. How would you suggest that demand be met? Everytime they (the Israeli's) to make a concession, get somewhere with a ceasefire - it is the wackos on Palestines side who screw it up, not the Israel. How do you work with a country who cannot or will not control its own crazies??
By the way, these are the same lovely individuals who want my family and I dead, so sorry I cannot side with them.

[Maverick]

Nashwan,

I saw you are totally anonomous on your profile. Guess you are unwilling to let anyone know your roots.

Mav

[Nashwan]

I like anonymity, but since you seem to read something into it, my roots are:
born in Wales, UK, to Welsh parents, 50% Welsh/50% English grandparents.
Brought up in Wales and Yemen, where I learnt that most Arabs aren't screaming fanatics desperate to kill "infidels" (Christians and Jews are not infidels to Islam, as we believe in the same God)
Nonconformist Christian. I dislike organised religons because they tend to focus more on the organisation than the religon.
I hate terrorism in all it's forms.
I don't like people suffering, and I would like to see the world a better place, and I support military action where necessary.
I support the right of both Israel and Palestine to exist. To my mind, the only way that can work is with two seperate countries, and that can never work while Israel is expanding colonization of the West Bank and Gaza.
I believe Israel has to make the first move because they have the power, the Palestinians do not. Palesinians cannot give Israel anything, except an end to violence, and that will not come until there is an end to hatred. Any improvement for the Palestinians will lessen that hatred, but it will take many years to go totaly. At the moment almost all Palestinians support the violence against Israel. Give them a country of their own, and a chance at a better life, and that will change.

I don't support violence against civilians, Arab or Jewish. Between the Palestinians and Israel, Israel is by far the biggest instigator of that violence. I believe that a Palestinian life is as important as a Jewish one, or as an American one, or as mine. Unlike some people, I believe a murderer is a murderer, even if it is not me or my family they are trying to kill.

[ 10-18-2001: Message edited by: Nashwan ]