Author Topic: Excellent article on Arab vs West relations  (Read 873 times)

Offline fd ski

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Excellent article on Arab vs West relations
« on: October 16, 2001, 10:21:00 AM »
Posted on AGW by cmos:
 http://www.sunday-times.co.uk/news/pages/sti/2001/10/14/stiusausa03007.html?

Absolutelly excellent read.

Offline Ripsnort

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Excellent article on Arab vs West relations
« Reply #1 on: October 16, 2001, 10:38:00 AM »
Oh yes, of course, its OUR fault, we "Americanized them".  :rolleyes:

Offline Wobble

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Excellent article on Arab vs West relations
« Reply #2 on: October 16, 2001, 10:50:00 AM »
Quote
Nothing will be solved by quoting the Koran. You can find in it condemnations of war and incitements to struggle

But just what constitutes a struggle? the vagueness is a door, in the minds of the alqueda the very existance of the western way of life is considered an attack even if we didnt do ANYTHING against them they would still totally hate us..

because when they look over here and see a street that has a Cathlic chruch, then a black further down a Muslim one, then another block down an Jewish Temple. they dont see freedom of religion, the see a socity that condones and encourages the worshipping of false gods... they see our wealth and prosparity not as achievments, but as usless decadence.. etc etc.. etc

its just their little twisted skew on things, and aside from ceasing to exist there isnt a thing we can do to make the see us in any different light.
so... well, screw em  :D

Offline Eagler

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Excellent article on Arab vs West relations
« Reply #3 on: October 16, 2001, 11:05:00 AM »
good article but...

 the answer is????

"Arabs feel that they are under siege from the modern world and that the US symbolises this world. Every action America takes gets magnified a thousandfold. And even when we do not act, the rumours of its gigantic powers and nefarious deeds still spread. Most Americans would not believe how common the rumour is throughout the Arab world that the CIA or Israel's Mossad blew up the World Trade Center to justify attacks on Arabs and Muslims. This is the culture from which the suicide bombers have come."

they are going to hate us no matter what we do.

as someone stated last night, if you can't contain evil, you have to destroy it.

seems to me to be the beginning of a war veiled in religious beliefs. one that common sense will not matter as fanatics screaming from their caves will direct the "true believers" to their Allahhh. What else do they have to do? What do they have to lose? Dying, in their mind, for a rightous cause is better than sitting around picking camels ticks off ya...

What gets me is the silence of the leaders of the Muslim faith. Why are they not screaming from the highest pulpit denouncing the terrorist actions? In their silence is their real message.

...if you can't contain evil, you have to destroy it. As of 9/11/2001 it's proven we cannot contain it any longer.
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Offline Maverick

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Excellent article on Arab vs West relations
« Reply #4 on: October 16, 2001, 01:44:00 PM »
Quite a lot of words but little or no message and explanation.

The only reason to hate the US in this article is the ineptitude of the arabic world to climb out of the feudal state of mind they have had for quite some time.

The use of religion to continue to control a population that is stagnated maintains the control without the population even realising it. It is a ploy to keep their own people in servitude and maintain the status quo because they lack the imagination, will and intelligence to "evolve" their own society.

This article actually serves no purpose other than taking up copy space. There are no real insights, new or otherwise in it.

Mav
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Offline fd ski

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Excellent article on Arab vs West relations
« Reply #5 on: October 16, 2001, 02:11:00 PM »
Worr, if you're reading this, in regards to our converation last thursday - you were right, i was wrong.

Offline Eagler

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Excellent article on Arab vs West relations
« Reply #6 on: October 16, 2001, 02:29:00 PM »
this is the problem:

 

they are taught to hate America as soon as they learn how to tie their shoes. Generations do not expand past the ignorance of their previous ones. I bet most of you are not as prejudice as your father or grandfather or great grandfather. Maybe even a little more enlighten too. Why, because we have evolved with each gen.
 When hate is instilled at such a young age it is improbable if not impossible to remove it. I bet if you took 10 - 5 year kids from the area, they'd state they hate us but would not have a clue as why .... the same ones that at 18 will strap a bomb on their arse and blow you and I to kingdom come given the 1st opportunity.
Praise Allah!
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Offline worr

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Excellent article on Arab vs West relations
« Reply #7 on: October 16, 2001, 02:55:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by fd ski:
Worr, if you're reading this, in regards to our converation last thursday - you were right, i was wrong.


They need more context, fd ski. I think AGW has far outpaced them in the political discussion...and we and I actually "worked" some things through.

There is always a "timing" to such discussions.

Worr, out

Offline leonid

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Excellent article on Arab vs West relations
« Reply #8 on: October 17, 2001, 07:36:00 AM »
Incisive article, fd ski.  Thank you for posting it  :)
ingame: Raz

Offline Sky Viper

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Excellent article on Arab vs West relations
« Reply #9 on: October 17, 2001, 11:34:00 AM »
I find some errant thoughts and statements in this article.

"The immediate reaction to the murder of 5,000 innocents was anger, not analysis.
Oh? Anger that took weeks to turn into retaliation?  No, analysis was in the front of most of our minds as I saw it.

"But there are billions of poor and weak and oppressed people around the world. They don't turn planes into bombs.
No, but then the "Poor" are not able to are they?
The statement that they hate us because they are poor and we are rich, is in itself a huge error.  It was not the "Poor" Afgans who flew into the WTC, it was a successful and wealthy Engineer and friends who were funded by one of the "Richest" organizations the world.

It is interesting that Mr. Fareed Zakaria uses ignores this information to set the roots for such an article.


Viper

Offline popeye

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Excellent article on Arab vs West relations
« Reply #10 on: October 17, 2001, 11:42:00 AM »
Arab relations with the West just took a turn for the worse:
 http://www.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/meast/10/17/israel.zeevi/index.html
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Offline Eagler

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Excellent article on Arab vs West relations
« Reply #11 on: October 17, 2001, 01:07:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by popeye:
Arab relations with the West just took a turn for the worse:
 http://www.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/meast/10/17/israel.zeevi/index.html

yep, it sure did. Wasn't this guy going to retire or something? If so, the palestines would have been better off letting him do that than make a martyr and a cause out of the guy. just more PLO toejame stirring ...
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Offline Toad

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Excellent article on Arab vs West relations
« Reply #12 on: October 17, 2001, 01:11:00 PM »
I agree with Mav.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline Nashwan

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Excellent article on Arab vs West relations
« Reply #13 on: October 17, 2001, 02:14:00 PM »
Quote
yep, it sure did. Wasn't this guy going to retire or something? If so, the palestines would have been better off letting him do that than make a martyr and a cause out of the guy. just more PLO toejame stirring ...
The PFLP carried out the assasination, in revenge for the Israeli killing of their leader, Abu Ali Mustafa, at the end of August.
 
Quote
Palestinian sources say Abu Ali Mustafa died when at least two missiles struck his office in the West Bank town of Ramallah, not far from the offices of Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat.
Israeli military forces confirmed that they had carried out the attack, saying the missiles were fired by a helicopter gunship.

Mustafa is the highest-ranking Palestinian official to be assassinated by the Israelis since the start of the 11-month Palestinian uprising.

The Palestinian Authority has declared three days of national mourning for Abu Ali Mustafa, while vows of revenge came from the PFLP's Damascus headquarters and from the militant Islamic group Hamas, which called the attack a declaration of war.

Rabah Muhana, a political leader of the PFLP, told Reuters news agency: "We will seek to target and harm Israeli criminal leaders to respond to the assassination of Abu Ali Mustafa and to block further Israeli attacks on Palestinian leaders.  http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/middle_east/newsid_1511000/1511515.stm
More Israeli toejam stirring?

Offline Ripsnort

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Excellent article on Arab vs West relations
« Reply #14 on: October 17, 2001, 02:27:00 PM »
I read an article somewhere...apparently they wired in the phone call to his office via the Helo headphones, so when he picked up the phone and answered (Confirming his presence in the office) the Helo pilots unleashed the rockets.