Moderators- A search for guidelines and improvements.

[rod367th]

I do not use name of player, on boards as that has been told to Players not to do.


 But this player was on suspension when he used private vox to abuse myself and others. no less than 10 players said they sending screen shots and films same day he went on at me. I set 4 films of xxxxxxx who was on suspension on text at time. Swearing, calling mother and sister unmentionable things, threaten to do physical harm to me and family didn't stop swearing or belittling; for 30mins on one film alone. and 3 days later he's back in arena with all privileges. So I think anyone has right to ask company what is policy I'm confused.




 And you bet If something wrong with CABLE, OR CAR ETC. if I CALLED THEM OR ASKED THEM A QUESTION . AND THIER RESPONCE WAS CONTINUE ASKING QUESTIONS YOU'LL BE GONE . YOU CAN BET CABLE WOULD BE CHANGED WITH DISH, CAR  COMPANY AFTER CONTACT GENERAL MOTORS AND PROBLEM NOT ANSWERED YOU CAN BET LAST GM CAR I WOULD BUY.

    I've own a national Company and over years had many complaints and questions put to me. The question gmrpr is asking is just like someone calling me and saying " hey Rod why did your employee say he didn't make marks in my parking lot with your crane. Could you please look into this and discuss how things can be fixed". This customer was right when i looked into what happen I saw my crane crew didn't put pads out under their outriggers to spread weight out. I explained to customer I would get it fix asap and when he suggested to me to have a setup check list ( which was already in place) I just looked at him and said that's great idea and will add to our existing setup sheet. But here you have company HTC when someone ask a good question in a honest way say continue to ask Question and you could be gone. It should concern all Customers. For I as a businessman always treated every customer same from the 50 dollar sign till the millions of dollar signs.  




   I have heard from  HTC is redesigning mods. And I believe it would behove Dale to be honest and Say we are working on this and hope to have a better system. I really strongly ask you to apologize to Gmrpr. And tell him truth your working to better   mod's and arena I Really believe you guys try hard but think we your customers can't handle truth. Or that some will abuse the truth be  told.

[rod367th]

Originally posted by BlkKnit
I dont think I have ever heard a word from a mod....wonder why that is?

lol then u must not have keyboard or fingers, i've been muted before for typing f4u. after calling skuzzy bug in comp mod was fixed.

[fartwinkle]

Rod 367 you make good sense in your post and I agree with ya but you gotta understand that im sure Dale is as sick of this as the rest of us.

And as I stated as long as you have human mods there will abuse it simple human nature.
I have been muted many times with out a warning and you bet it ticked me off.
But in all honesty if I had not been running my pie hole im rather sure the Mods would have never noticed me.

And yes I have has morons private text me with insults and I squelched there butts problem solved.

Now someone has said that it would be nice to have a permanent squech list.
Heck that sounds like it would solve alot of problems in that you know who the trouble makers are so you could have them on your squelch list and never have to hear them.


And not to offend anyone here but I would rather have Dale busy doing what he does best than playing wet nurse to a bunch of folks who got there feelings hurt.

Maybe and forgive me Dale  but maybe assigning someone to handle public affairs would be in your best intrest as I feel you and I are alike in this type of thing as we are just a little to direct in our responses you IMHO owe no one
an apology for simply being who you are.

As I have learned from being a customer under one name or another since 2000 that it is what it is and cryin bout it wont change a thing.

LOL you know and I know that in the past I have been a royal pain in  the arse and have been booted and or just plain cancelled my account.

But after thinking it over and thinking more clearly I can see that I was the problem not HTC.

Now its your house do as you like but there has been some good suggestions in this thread and they might just make life better for everyone.

Worth taking a look at?

[ghi]

Originally posted by BluKitty
, and Grm. is a verbal saint...... (rollseyes)

 
            I got lot of insults from him on ch.200, or private, BKs are great buch, should teach him some manners, not defend their black sheep on BB,

[Murdr]

Originally posted by rod367th
I've own a national Company and over years had many complaints and questions put to me. The question gmrpr is asking is just like someone calling me and saying " hey Rod why did your employee say he didn't make marks in my parking lot with your crane. Could you please look into this and discuss how things can be fixed". This customer was right when i looked into what happen I saw my crane crew didn't put pads out under their outriggers to spread weight out. I explained to customer I would get it fix asap and when he suggested to me to have a setup check list ( which was already in place) I just looked at him and said that's great idea and will add to our existing setup sheet. But here you have company HTC when someone ask a good question in a honest way say continue to ask Question and you could be gone. It should concern all Customers. For I as a businessman always treated every customer same from the 50 dollar

Rod, I think you would agree that it would be bad form if instead of contacting you, or your subordinate directly, your customer voiced his complaint to your entire client base.  It is pretty well established that some topics should be handled directly with HTC and not here.  In this case, the fact that this thread has been allowed continue indicates that HT is for now interested in seeing feedback on this issue, despite the fact that this is not the prefered way to bring it up.

In regards to the concerns about habitual problem players, Im not disagreeing with many of the observations.  But I do hope you guys be careful what you ask for.  Recieving persistant email complaints about particual players would eventually, I think cause the issue with that individual to be delt with.  Persistant public complaints about the system might just cause something to be put in place that no one will be happy with.

[wrag]

Originally posted by Murdr
Rod, I think you would agree that it would be bad form if instead of contacting you, or your subordinate directly, your customer voiced his complaint to your entire client base.  It is pretty well established that some topics should be handled directly with HTC and not here.  In this case, the fact that this thread has been allowed continue indicates that HT is for now interested in seeing feedback on this issue, despite the fact that this is not the prefered way to bring it up.

In regards to the concerns about habitual problem players, Im not disagreeing with many of the observations.  But I do hope you guys be careful what you ask for.  Recieving persistant email complaints about particual players would eventually, I think cause the issue with that individual to be delt with.  Persistant public complaints about the system might just cause something to be put in place that no one will be happy with.

Someone is thinking this through!  

As to certain players abusing so many people.  I too have sent in films of such behavour.

Something has been done on both occasion.

Later one of the players I had complained about and I spoke re that happening and got it sorted out.  

Sometimes life can hand us allot of bad stuff all at once or over and over in a seemingly never ending stream.  I've seen both.  It can make any of us react poorly to the world around us.

Sometimes it can be good for us to remember bad times.  If for no other reason then it helps us better appreciate the good times.

I generally don't hold a grudge.  Life is too short.






BUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!    kappa YOU ARE A P38 BULLY .....   AND the 475th wears COMBAT FLIGHT BOOTS!!!!:t


Glade my squadies put up with my rants on squad channel!  Great people!

[rod367th]

Originally posted by Murdr
Rod, I think you would agree that it would be bad form if instead of contacting you, or your subordinate directly, your customer voiced his complaint to your entire client base.  It is pretty well established that some topics should be handled directly with HTC and not here.  In this case, the fact that this thread has been allowed continue indicates that HT is for now interested in seeing feedback on this issue, despite the fact that this is not the prefered way to bring it up.

In regards to the concerns about habitual problem players, Im not disagreeing with many of the observations.  But I do hope you guys be careful what you ask for.  Recieving persistant email complaints about particual players would eventually, I think cause the issue with that individual to be delt with.  Persistant public complaints about the system might just cause something to be put in place that no one will be happy with.

 Mudr I guess we see gmrpr's question differently. I see it as a legit question that he and many others are trying to understand. To ask for guidance about how moderators work is not out of realm for all customers to know. Now if he was asking about moderator 's name or thought he had been wronged then private is they way to go.  Since this is a question allot ask about and gmrp cannot go private with dale and see if his perception is wrong without going on these boards. I believe that his question is on point and no abusive to HTC or its customer base.


 a lot of in game things discuss on these boards. I see nothing different than if he asked why can't we stop Ho's or dive bombing and so on.

[BluKitty]

Originally posted by ghi
I got lot of insults from him on ch.200, or private, BKs are great buch, should teach him some manners, not defend their black sheep on BB,

the "(rollseyes)" was supposed to imply sarcasm  .. because this  doesn't look very sarcastic anymore

[SuperDud]

Originally posted by BluKitty
the "(rollseyes)" was supposed to imply sarcasm  .. because this  doesn't look very sarcastic anymore

Why didn't you just do the old tried and true [sarcasm] and [/sarcasm] bit?

[grmrpr]

Originally posted by hitech
MyTake:

1. Grmrpr dosn't like my mod system.
2. Grmrpr starts raisning a fuss in the main.
3. Dosn't win there because mods are doing what they are there 4. So he comes here and continues the same topic.
4. He tries shift the blaim to the mods instead of hist behavior.

Future step 5. He continues the same behavior and is no longer with us.

What it comes down to is very simple , If you do not know how to beheavior in a general social enviorment, no amout of rules will ever teach you to do so.

HiTech

Hitech,


1.  It is not a matter of disliking the mod system.  It is a matter of trying to improve it.
2.  I did discuss the issue in the open arena.
3.  Was not trying to "Win".  I was trying to see what others felt and qet feedback.  
4.  It is not the mods I blame.  It is the system I am trying to constructively improve.


In 3 cases I have called Skuzzy about moderator problems.  In 1 case I was told the automod went hay wire and it was fixed.  I 1 other case I agreed I had pushed the envelope too far and that moderator in question also went too far.  The last case I was told would be researched and was never gotten back to.

In 1 case you and I talked about the moderator system when we spoke about the impending move to AT&T and you were asking me if I knew a way to get Solaris to route out multiple interfaces.  We spoke about how I handle mod's on the game servers I resale.

If you want to proceed to step 5 go ahead... If this is my penance so be it.  Heck it would probably be good for me.  I should spend more time working on my instrument rating.

Regards-

GrmRpr


Note to all-

I am no saint in all this.  I have walked the line of good taste and have crossed it from time to time.  There have been times I have deserved to be muted and accept that.  However I have never crossed the line to the point where I "threaten" anyone or go out of my way to harm thier game experience.  

I strongly dissagree with HiTech's position and feel strongly enough about it to challenge the issue.  This might and looks like it is real close to causing me to be banned from the game.  I accept that.

Regards to all-

GrmRpr


If I survive this I look forward to discussing it in person at the Con....

[Bodhi]

Originally posted by SuperDud
Why didn't you just do the old tried and true [sarcasm] and [/sarcasm] bit?

because he is afraid of being called a pot.

[hitech]

Btw you all do have a method of dealing with people. We have a completly self governing system. Compltly automatic. If people .report abusive users the problem is solved.

And I realy do not by into the fact of moderator abuse. In absolutly every case that I have looked into of so called moderator abuse. If I were handling the same issuse I would have done the same or more.

And what realy sums it up is somthing you yourself said grim. You went overboard with a moderator, Then try to also shift the blame by saying so did the moderator. This is where you totaly loose your case. If you had not started/caused the problem, there would be nothing for the mod to do. YOU pushed the issue not the mod. You are at fault not the mod, he was just doing what he was asked to do.

And so you all know, one of the guide lines that has always been given to the mods, is if someone openly complains about a waring, do not argue with them, if its a one liner use your judgement. If more than one comment, do not hesitate to mute them.

And It is also not uncomon for use to block people from the system for abuse. But we never reply to a complaint of films of abuse. We just take care of it.

HiTech

[1ijac]

I was also a moderator in AW for some time and moderated another game server for a few years.  In that time, I've seen moderators make mistakes but on the most part, the few mistakes were made while dealing with some player or players disrupting gameplay.  They wouldn't have made any mistakes if the player/players in question were being respectful of others instead of making some intentional abusive remark to someone.   In AW, the squelch function was broken in the moderator's tools and it created alot more work for the moderators.  We all thought "wouldn't it be great if that worked.  All we would need to do is silence that player as a warning and he would get the message or continue down the road to a ban from the game."  I would venture to say that the players who are most concerned with the squelching are the ones who are pushing the limits of acceptable conduct or the ones who abuse it regularly.  I have no idea if Hitech is paying the mods but it is my guess that they are volunteers who have to babysit troublesome players instead of enjoying the game.  Aces High is alot more tolerable of things than many other game servers.  The ideal way to moderate a gameserver is to let the community keep the bad seeds in line.  Hitech has provided that ability to some extent by allowing a player to squelch individual players or channels so they don't have to listen to some of the "crap" in text/voice.  Unfortunately, the moderators are necessary because a small part of the community consistently broadcast their disrespectful or abusive comments to anyone who will listen.  On the most part, I personally find the moderators doing a thankless job for the good of the community.  They're not perfect but who is?

 Lighten up guys and look at the big picture here.  It's a great game which can be frustrating at times.  While frustrated, a player makes a bad decision and tries to make an abusive comment to another.  The language filter auto detects it and tells the player that it is unacceptable.  While still in a rage, the player gets creative and by-passes the filter by typing a space or mispelling the intended poor choice of words and gets away with it for everyone to see.  Other questionable players see it and realize that they can do that too.  The moderators simply place a short squelch on the player as a warning and that should be the end of it.  Who cares if someone else gets away with it.  The original player has hopefully learned their lesson and the others will be dealt with in time.   Individual players can file a complaint on someone while in the game!  Thank you again Hitech!   The Aces High Staff has done alot more than many other gameservers and are doing a great job.  If a player is that unhappy about being squelched all the time, they need to look at the source of the problem, Them!  Or maybe consider leaving for the good of everyone.  

Sorry for the long winded response here but I hate to see the developers of the game take hits about crap that ideally they shouldn't have to deal with.  It's crap caused by a small part of the community who generally are the same people in each incident.

[skernsk]

Originally posted by BlkKnit
I dont think I have ever heard a word from a mod....wonder why that is?

Good point.  I cant' seem to find a problem here.  I wish there could be more 'mods' for the people on vox who use f*ck every second word.

[E25280]

Originally posted by Widewing

Nonetheless, if you believe you have a valid issue with a moderator, trainer or CM, the place for discussing this is not in the text buffer and not on the BBS either. The place to discuss this is via e-mail with HTC. Be sure to document the problem via film. If you don't have film, you won't have a case. If you have a valid issue, HTC will take the time to talk to the parties involved and if need be, will discipline the CM/trainer/moderator privately, and I know this for a fact.

So please, conduct these discussions via e-mail or phone call to HTC and not here.

My regards,

Widewing

IMHO, this is totally impractical.  I don't know of anyone who films themselves 24/7.  By the time you perceive a problem with how you are being treated, it is kind of late to film what lead up to it.  Therefore there will always be a "he said, she said" element, and I assume if there is ANY doubt, HTC will side with the moderator (as he should).

I have no dog in this fight, so please don't take this as advocating one person's side or the other.  

<> just saw HiTech's note above that came while I was typing.  I am removing the rest of my original post as it seems to no longer apply.  HiTech's position is totally clear.