Moderators- A search for guidelines and improvements.

[grmrpr]

All-



I am writing this in the hopes to engage as many players as possible into a discussion about the current state of moderators.  The goal of this thread is not to bash the moderators but rather to rally the AH community into better understanding their roles and our responsibilities as players.  It is also my hope we use this as a platform to establish our community guidelines.

On the night of 3/16/2006 several players were muted repeatedly for conducting an open discussion on 200 about moderators.  The discussion was conducted very appropriately and the players involved in the discussion tried to bend over backwards to not cross any lines that could be considered by any reasonable adult as cause for being muted.  Never the less the moderator on at the time felt differently and continually muted several players for openly discussing the topic at all.  To avoid this type of situation in the future here is what I propose:


1.  HTC should spend some time writing a EULA "End User License Agreement" or AUP "Acceptable Use Policy" which contains guidelines for what is acceptable in play.  This document(s) should contain a set of guidelines for what is acceptable and what is not.  For example items that may be appropriate are:

  a.  No curse words in text or spoken on public channels.
  b.  No attempts to bypass language filters.
  c.  No threatening of any kind.
  d.  No Sexual harassment.
 
2.  There should be a moderator’s handbook.  For example items that may be appropriate:

  a.  The role of the moderator is a customer service role.  When acting in this role you are addressing the customers that pay for this game and you should treat them fairly and impartially.
  b.  The role of a good moderator is to diffuse a situation.  If you approach a situation in a confrontational manner you will only escalate the situation instead of diffusing it.  
  c.  When a player gets out of line they should be spoken to politely and be given the opportunity to correct their behavior on their own.  Any popup mesgs sent to players in warnings should be sent politely.  For example:

Appropriate Moderator Responses:

Player- Using foul language
"Please refrain from using that language"

Player- Making Sexual comments
"Please do not discuss that- some of our players are under age"

Player- Trolling political subjects
"Please take that topic off-line or to a private channel"

   d.  As a moderator from time to time there will be topics discussed that you may personally not agree with.  You should not use your privileges to squelch situations unless they are in violation of the rules.


3.  Wouldn't it be nice if there was a method for players to field complaints against what they feel are inappropriate uses of moderators’ privileges?  For example if every time a moderator uses their mute ability the popup could be stamped with an incident number.  With the incident number the player could write into a moderator owned forum asking for an explanation to why they were muted or why they disagree with the mute.  This implies that all moderators would be able to track incidents numbers and review them.


Please let's try to keep this discussion constructive and use it as a vehicle to improve the game.


Regards all-  


GrmRpr



What are your experiences with moderators?
What do you think could improve the game for them and the players?
What other models have you seen that work well in multi players games to police the community?

[DipStick]

Under section (1) I would add:

e. No racial slurs or derogatory statements.


Under section (2) (c) add:

Player- Making Racial comments
"Please do not discuss that- some of our players find it highly offensive"

With those additions I think you are about done.

Good job!

[Fury]

When I was a sysop on the Zone (mostly for Fighter Ace), we actually had to go through training classes before we were sysops .  There were definite guidlines.  We even had to screenshot foul language, griefer friendly fire, personal attacks before taking action (as a CYA).  We had to warn before muting or even kicking someone out of a room or totally banning them from the Zone for 24 hours (we used canned warning text a lot of the time).  One example that sticks out to me is a user named 'XyclonB' in Fighter Ace.  I had several complaints about that name when I came into a lobby (I had no idea what it was at the time) and after it was explained to me what that name meant, I kicked and banned the user.  I felt that fell into the 'offensive name' catagory.

I can't pretend to know what HTC does but I have to assume they give game and bbs mods guidelines, with some room for judgement.  I also have to belive that they pick their mods only after knowing they can trust them.  You can't give someone that kind of responsibility and huge customer contact and worry that the mod will drive customers away and cause more harm than good.

Unfortunately, no matter what HTC does there will be issues with mods, whether it's a mod overstepping his bounds or a customer who doesn't agree with what a mod did (even if the mod was correct).  I'd assume that HTC would take a look at reports of 'mod abuse' just to make sure a mod was not going postal, but I'd also think that there would have to be plenty of hard evidence of why a mod overstepped to back up the claim.  Hopefully there would not be too much trivial complaining that would take up too much time from dev since HTC is so small.

The guideline you suggested is a good idea (I have no idea if it already exists since I don't read that stuff), it sounds similar to the posting rules on the bbs (just remember that there will always be a little wiggle room for judgement).

I haven't had any experience with mods in-game or on the boards at AH so I can't comment on what I think of them or what they do.

[Jackal1]

From what I`ve seen of this discussion in the MA and others is that the biggest problem is the continuing badgering of the mods after a mute or a warning. This was no different. Send an e-mail or call HTC if you actualy feel you have been wronged and it is that important to you.It`s pretty disruptive when you continue on and on while in the MA and accomplishs nothing.
A few days ago I made a comment about a "schit 16". I was warned to watch my language and replied with something to the point of..... "Thank you for those kind words Mr. Mod..........np". End of story. I lived through it without too much mental anquish.

[NoBaddy]

Just to set my background...

I was the Head game op (AW moderator) in AW AOL for 5+ years. I was the first (and for a year or so, the only) game op in AW on Gamestorm. I have known HT for close to 16 years, Pyro for near that long and Skuzzy for about 3 years. My previous experience (nightmare) lead me to decline to moderate this game. I have spoken to both HT and Skuzzy extensively in the last 5 years about how the moderation system works.

Originally posted by grmrpr

 1.  HTC should spend some time writing a EULA "End User License Agreement" or AUP "Acceptable Use Policy" which contains guidelines for what is acceptable in play.  This document(s) should contain a set of guidelines for what is acceptable and what is not.  For example items that may be appropriate are:

  a.  No curse words in text or spoken on public channels.
  b.  No attempts to bypass language filters.
  c.  No threatening of any kind.
  d.  No Sexual harassment.

"11.  Subscribers are expressly prohibited from engaging in any activity that constitutes, in the sole opinion of HiTech Creations, system abuse.
"

This is from the TOS agreement and is about as specific as HT is going to get. Why? Keeping this vague allows HTC to enforce the TOS as they see fit. Because it is not specific, it covers ANY situation that HTC determines is "system abuse", from hacking and cheating....to profanity and trolling. Additonally, the more specific the TOS, the greater the possible legal ramifications.

Originally posted by grmrpr
 a.  The role of the moderator is a customer service role.  When acting in this role you are addressing the customers that pay for this game and you should treat them fairly and impartially.
  b.  The role of a good moderator is to diffuse a situation.  If you approach a situation in a confrontational manner you will only escalate the situation instead of diffusing it.  
 

Actually, HT has told me that his mods are not in the arena in a "customer service role". The mods are there to deal with game play disruptions by the players. I agree that mods should try to "diffuse a situation", HT and I have disagreed (more than once ) on the best way to do so. I do know that mods are supposed to warn before mute, UNLESS it's a player that they have previously warned. I am not sure how "previous" the warning needs to be.

Originally posted by grmrpr

3.  Wouldn't it be nice if there was a method for players to field complaints against what they feel are inappropriate uses of moderators’ privileges?  For example if every time a moderator uses their mute ability the popup could be stamped with an incident number.  With the incident number the player could write into a moderator owned forum asking for an explanation to why they were muted or why they disagree with the mute.  This implies that all moderators would be able to track incidents numbers and review them.
 

I think you meant "file" complaints. Complaints about the game moderation should be filed with Skuzzy via email. This has beens stated in every moderation thread I have seen in the last 5 years. If I remember correctly, the mutes do generate flags so that what happened can be check, if needed. I do not know if mods have to write incident reports. My experience with AW makes me pray they don't.

Originally posted by grmrpr

Please let's try to keep this discussion constructive and use it as a vehicle to improve the game.

If everyone does this, this thread just might stay open long enough to accomplish something. I have my doubts though.

My experiences with moderators.....hmmm.
I have few here. I have been muted once in 5 years and I deserved it. I have constantly seen other players get warned/muted and complain about someone else getting away with what they did. Like that makes it OK. I view the mods as our local police. When I am asked to stop doing something, I stop. I don't argue with them. Anyone that does should expect more sever action. Arguing with a cop is pointless, take it up with the judge. The "cops" are not the final authority...HT is (through Skuzzy).

What do you think could improve the game for them and the players?
Players should do what the mods ask them to do and if they believe what they are asked to do is unfair or incorrect, contact Skuzzy.

What other models have you seen that work well in multi players games to police the community?
Well, I can tell you about a model that didn't work and one that did...but, at a very high cost. Both in the same game. However, my fingers are tired...so, another time.

BTW, I logged in after this "discussion" started. I think you were already gone. What I saw was NOT very "appropriate". It was childish, annoying and veiled threats were made against the mods and other players. The folks involved at that time should be glad that HT didn't provide me with the powers I had in AW...at least a couple of players would be on the outside, permenantly. My guess would be that something you asked for above occured. The mods saw a situation occuring that could become disruptive and chose to attempt to defuse it. From the 2 hours of it that I saw, the attempt to defuse the situation failed.

[Edbert]

I hope this does not come off as some sort of affront to HTC or their employees, paid or otherwise. I have been a customer of "Dale and Doug's flight sims" for over a decade and fully intend to continue being one. But I think the subject of the moderators is an important one, to everyone.

I have no issue with there being moderators in the MA or on the BBS. While the need for them might be regrettable, there are clearly people who cannot conduct themselves in a respectful and adult manner and do in fact need to have a babysitter. I also recognize that the MA is exempt from the constitutionally protected freedom of speech, HTC can implement any policy it deems appropriate. But the current implementation of the moderators in the MA does need some tweaking in my opinion. There have been some good suggestions already but for me it all boils down to two main points.

FAIRNESS
There is a widespread conclusion that the application of the policy is skewed by personality. This may or not be true, I am open to the possibility that is a misperception, but perception can and often does become reality if it is allowed to spread. I have seen some of the most outrageous things said on ch200 by some individuals who keep posting on and on while others I know have been muted for saying “sissy”. On the night in question (3/16) whoever the moderator-on-duty was, he clearly having a bad day. We all have them from time to time, but it is sad that his bad mood had to affect my evening of recreation. I got muted once for reasons I really do not understand. There was no warning, no explanation. When I became un-muted I asked “Mr. Moderator, please tell me what I sad wrong so I can avoid doing it again”. I then got muted again. During my silent period I saw a small subset of players ranting on ch200, making all sorts of personal attacks and casting aspersions towards the sexual activities of other player’s mothers. This situation can only be solved by there being some sort of EUAL/ACU that must be enforced without prejudice or consideration of personalities, which is my second point.

POLICY
I recognize the trap of trying to list every naughty word, that is not what I mean we should have. But there does need to be some sort of policy that says certain things are not allowed to be discussed or even mentioned. I can only conclude from my recent run-in with the moderators that the fact that there is no policy is not allowed to be mentioned. Does that not strike anyone as being ridiculous? I expect that every time someone gets muted that they are owed an explanation of what they did wrong. The policy is not open to a vote, HTC can lay down any law they choose, but in order to comply with the policy I do need to understand what it is.

[TequilaChaser]

I am just giving my opinion here, but if it is anything like the different groups ( CM Staff - Training staff -  etc....) each group more than likely already use a base set type of rules ( ie---> handbook ) for the different types of arena use available to the community

the biggest problem to deal with / over come for HTC ( or any other MPOG ) is picking the most responsible/ mature/ non-bias individuals to do the job's task......

regardless if they are well known and popular with the community, or have bunch of friends , if the friend is out of line they should not play favortism and let them go unmuted/warned just because......

I have been muted for mis speeling a word here or their once or twice, but never ejected or banned- is because I try not to psuh peoples buttons and respect the next player on the other end for the most part, to enjoy their online time as I would like to enjoy mine.   the way the system works now is much  better for the community than having full time ( and publically known ) moderators/gameops......

if you push them in that direction, it just breeds all kinds of ill will for the people doing the job, that eventually the ones doing it get burnt out, and end up not having fun themselves.......

looking back, 2 or 3 of them other sims, had alot of online staff ( fulltime & volunteer ) and the more they policed the more hassle they seemed to get from the community.......

one thing about online staff ( vol or fulltime employee) they always have the ability to update and amend the base line handbook they all go by, if it is needed or warranted..........

if the whole community knew the handbook guidelines/rules , then that would open the door for certian players to find a loop hole to work around to create chaos for others, just because that is how they get their kicks and entertainment.......

like I said, just my view/opinion...........

[Urchin]

I've no idea if the mods are the same people who were doing it 2-3 years ago, but I can say without any doubt that whatever "policies" were in place then were absolutely not being applied fairly or evenly.  

I mentioned it to Skuzzy, I ended up cancelling my account over it.  That was a while ago though, perhaps they have different people doing it now.

[TequilaChaser]

Originally posted by Bodhi

The biggest problem that exists with moderation in game is an non uniform enforcement policy.  
 

not throwing spears at any of the moderators or HTC, but  is it that there is no basic handbook of rules for moderating..........or is it there is a handbook/rules, but the individual mderator is taking upon themselves to use action or not when they want to.........meaning they are being selective in their actions.......

is why I mentioned that the hardest thing for any online game to overcome regarding staffing is picking mature/responsible/non-biased individuals who will perform as desired for both the players and HTC........

to pull a name out as an example from long ago, Flossy back in that  decomissioned game of AW... was one of these highly sought after individuals who did not play favortism, and acted mature and responsibly in ever instance that arose........

no one knows who the mods are, make it where when an individual is muted/warned/ejected it tells them Moderator#1 or mderator#6 has issued the muting/warning/ejecting on (said player) so it would give some type of record as to which moderator is not  going by the guidelines if the muted/warned player wanted to file a complaint, yet keeps everyone's identity safe........if the person being muted/warned etc...has a reason to think they are being singled out, then they can email & say it was by moderator# so&so and this would show HTC if there is a pattern to be concerned about and would let them ( HTC ) take action accordingly to said moderator.......with out causing any hatred toward any player or moderator ......

just a thought

edited: as for Edbet's wish for a Policy and wanting to know, I think all should be able to know the policy,  but as of right now, NB has listed it or quoted from it in this thread as the TOS, I also understand it's vagueness and the reason why........what I am mentioning about is the handbook/rules/guidelines  that the moderators are to use/go by when looking for a reference point to apply to a situation in the game or on the messageboards......then also the moderaotrs being fair to everyone, and not singling out someone, or being selective.....to end, I am not saying that any single moderator is even doing this,  just saying if they was too or if people think they are........

[TalonX]

I was the "Moderator" trainer in AW towards the end of AWClassic.  I would run classes for these folks, with numerous examples I had written out, with the correct response in each case.

It worked well.  

Each Moderator had two accounts - one to moderate with and one to fly with - this eliminated any sense of power abuse while moderating.  We had a rough schedule to follow to cover the arena.

[wrag]

Fairness of application is IMHO the only answer.

Applying such can be tuff.

Also one moderator can be easy on people where another can jump all over everyone for everything.  Guide lines can also be tuff to set up.

[Creton]

Moderators need to be able to force people to not circumvent the rules.
ex. you cant type "****" but you can type"chit"

you cant type "studmuffin" but you can type "fa g"
cant" ****er" can "phucker"

this is an ever occuring issue with channel  200 and it never ends.I recently just tuned off 200,just because there's no rules applied to some of these people who consistantly have this type of behaviour on 200.

Another common problem is the ever growing list of people with truely unacceptable names or cpids,"jewkiller" "hugahunk" "som*****"  and the list just gets bigger everyday.

I'm no morale defender for HTC but there has to be limitations to the extent that people are allowed to skirt around the moderators.I got muted for 10minutes because I responded to someones calling me a "mutherfuker",by calling them a "studmuffin".Theres always gonna be the ones who cry "dweeb" "hack" "cheater" "blah blah" "get some skills u pos" ,these are just a few of the things that frequent the 200 channel.

Of course none of this can be blamed on HTC,it's more the morale decline of people and the rage of frustrations from being beat in game or haveing to much stress in real life to enjoy the game.

I would like to commend a few people who try to get people to clean it up alittle when in the main arena.These would be

WMLute
Ghosth
Sim
ROC

 I'm sure that there are many more but these are all that come to mind right now.Takeing a lesson from them ,I have been trying harder to keep it clean on my part.

[DamnedRen]

NB mentioned TOS. IMHO it was pure AOL garbage but it did create a sort of rules which everyone had to follow.

My thought on Moderating is "if you wouldn't spell or say something to your parents, then don't do it here". End of subject. If you do say something that you wouldn't want your parents to say then you had better expect to be chastised for it. If you add the rule..."no exceptions" then the boundaries get fairly well defined. When everyone knows what is expected of them, in order to play AH2 then they will either adhere to them or go watch TV.

Personally, I'd rather be flying....

[Grits]

My only problem with the moderation is soome people seem to get a pass, while others are hit hard and early. I have seen some regular abusers go on for hours, while at that same moment someone else will get muted or warned for much less.

As for me personally, I have never been muted, and the few warnings I have gotten were tactful and I did what I was asked and had no further problems.

[Morpheus]

Originally posted by Urchin
I've no idea if the mods are the same people who were doing it 2-3 years ago, but I can say without any doubt that whatever "policies" were in place then were absolutely not being applied fairly or evenly.  

I mentioned it to Skuzzy, I ended up cancelling my account over it.  That was a while ago though, perhaps they have different people doing it now.

everytime i log in I see or hear someone chewing someone else out. bleep bleep bleep bleep. just got old, i still have my account, but i went from playing 100+ hours a month at one point to under 10 the past couple months if that. im tired of the teens, and tired of their mouths. id rather shoot at drones off line in another sim than have to put up with their crap. dont give me the squelch them line. I shouldnt have to squelch 30 people just to play the game in silence.