Author Topic: Guess it was a matter of time.....  (Read 939 times)

Offline Yeager

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Guess it was a matter of time.....
« Reply #15 on: March 19, 2006, 07:57:11 PM »
On the left you have the assault ban. On the right, you have partial birth abortion ban.
====
good analogy.  I knew there was a reason for your existence :p
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Offline Leslie

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« Reply #16 on: March 19, 2006, 08:14:53 PM »
Assault waepons are full auto, think the term assault weapon is associated with  what the Germans called their light machine guns in WW2.  Someone help me here because I may be all wet.

There is no such thing as a semi-auto assault weapon.  The term itself is confusing to people who actually know something about guns.  It's a PC term designed to confuse.  I'm kinda thinking the way semi-autos are being defined by these lawmakers, is not truthful, but rather based on political correctness to a large extent.  I mean, if you wanta confuse folks, the first thing to do is change meanings of language, so nobody really knows what you're talking about.  It sounds good but many times is gibberish (psychobabble) and people applaud it rather than question it.  I'm glad we still can.

Probably won't be able to though once everyone's guns are gone.  Don't worry, that's what these people want to begin with.






Les

Offline Sandman

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« Reply #17 on: March 19, 2006, 08:20:21 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Yeager
On the left you have the assault ban. On the right, you have partial birth abortion ban.
====
good analogy.  I knew there was a reason for your existence :p


I aim to please.
sand

Offline lasersailor184

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« Reply #18 on: March 19, 2006, 08:31:06 PM »
Quote
`(xi) M1 Carbine


I don't care for any of those guns on that list except for this one.

Let it be known, that if they ban the M1 Carbine before I can get my hands on one, I will kick off the revolution that exact moment.
Punishr - N.D.M. Back in the air.
8.) Lasersailor 73 "Will lead the impending revolution from his keyboard"

Offline Hangtime

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« Reply #19 on: March 19, 2006, 08:39:52 PM »
henh.

It should be the mission of EVERY American to aquire EVERY gun on that gawdamned list.

.... and yes, I'm working on it.  :D
The price of Freedom is the willingness to do sudden battle, anywhere, any time and with utter recklessness...

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Offline nirvana

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« Reply #20 on: March 19, 2006, 08:54:23 PM »
I want one, which one of you guys wants to buy me one?  Gimme gimme, i'll even pay for yours!
Who are you to wave your finger?

Offline Shamus

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« Reply #21 on: March 19, 2006, 08:57:05 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by lasersailor184
I don't care for any of those guns on that list except for this one.

Let it be known, that if they ban the M1 Carbine before I can get my hands on one, I will kick off the revolution that exact moment.


You gonna have a website?

shamus

btw, the carbine is trash, fun to shoot but trash.
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Offline lasersailor184

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« Reply #22 on: March 19, 2006, 09:13:18 PM »
Why deal with html when you can deal in bullets?
Punishr - N.D.M. Back in the air.
8.) Lasersailor 73 "Will lead the impending revolution from his keyboard"

Offline Charon

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« Reply #23 on: March 19, 2006, 09:23:07 PM »
Fighting this crap in Illinois again. Just tracked the Chicago Tribune's recent editorial coverage (news and opinion) and sent a detailed analysis of direct bias, lack of basic reporting and inaccuracies in coverage to 3 editors and the publisher. Stuff like printing inaccurate statements from the "anti" side without a rebuttal from the "pro" side over and over again.

The latest big crusade was launched right after the recent failure of the last one a month or so ago, driven by one of the rare killings of an innocent by a criminal using such a weapon.  Apparently some criminal gangbanger went to Indiana, used a false ID, illegally bought an AK47 type, illegally converted it to fire automatic and shot some kid who got in the line of fire in a typical drug war neighborhood incident. A bit confusing how this criminal and his criminal behavior is connected to my rights as a legal, law-abiding gun owner. Doesn't seem like he respects  gun laws.

And, this type of thing IS exceedingly rare (of course the hysteria and hype makes it sound like people go to sleep to the sound of machine gun fire). According to Chicago Police records for 2004 (latest year posted) only 4 out of 313 murders were committed with ANY type of rifle. Seven people were killed with baseball bats. Good thing the Louisville Slugger lacks a pistol grip and a bayonet attachment or baseball would have to find a new way to hit the ball. 33 people were stabbed... The year before it was 5 out of 400+ killed by "a rifle." Oddly, the local media has neglected to publish such a simple fact (I doubt the question: "How many people are actually killed by these weapons..." was even asked) and ask why Prince Daley and Blojobovich are focusing so much attention to such a non issue. Heaven forbid somebody actually look at the crime problem itself, and not the tools that are used by these criminals (which is exactly what the proponents of the ban hope never happens).

Quote
Let it be known, that if they ban the M1 Carbine before I can get my hands on one, I will kick off the revolution that exact moment.


Yup. They want me to sell or deactivate my $700 original feature 1944 Inland M-1 carbine with their ****, if it ever passes. After all, $700 - $1500 Carbines and AR-15s and FALs, and $3000+ .50 Cal. rifles ARE the weapon of choice for gangbangers.

Charon
« Last Edit: March 19, 2006, 09:29:42 PM by Charon »

Offline Charon

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« Reply #24 on: March 19, 2006, 09:36:35 PM »
Here's my most recent effort, of several failed efforts recently to get a quality counter point in print:


Dear Ms. Lipinski:

It's hard not to notice (and catalog at the individual article level) some distinct editorializing in the hard news associated with the recent killing of Starkesia Reed. An online search at the Tribune Web site netted 11 hard news articles covering the shooting. Of those, six were fairly neutral in the "who, what, when, where, why" sense. However, four of the other five mirrored the Tribune's stated editorial position by featuring anti-"assault weapon" quotations without any rebuttal. The one that did have a rebuttal, featured three anti-AW positions against a single, weak counter position. The coverage on the opinion page is fairly balanced numerically, however there has yet to be a pro-AW position anywhere near as extensive as the spin-laden piece submitted by Ronald S. Safer on March 10, 2006.  

Further, I also have yet to see any basic journalism applied to what is an important, Constitutional rights issue. The spin from Daley and Blagojevich paints a picture of: "Mass Destruction." However, where is the basic reporting to determine what direct impact these weapons have on Chicago's murder toll? Is this a accidental oversight, or is the Tribune taking an active role in debate on your news pages? The death of Starkesia Reed was tragic. But, shortly after Starkesia's death, a youth was stabbed to death in Homewood. You are about eight times more likely to be killed by a knife as by an assault rifle. Yet, nobody is politicizing stabbing death of 17-year-old Maurice Hill. For that matter, you are more likely to be beaten to death by a baseball bat than killed by an AW. Has any Tribune reporter asked any of the following basic questions:

1. How many murders were committed by these weapons in 2005?

2. How many murders were committed the year before the 1994 federal ban? The murder review for 1993 (the year before the ban) is said to show that a Chicagoan was 67 times more likely to be stabbed or beaten to death than killed by an AW (I cannot locate the primary source).

3. Why are Daley and Blagojevich putting so much focus on a weapon that has such a minute impact on Chicago violent Crime?

According to the Chicago Police Murder Report 2004 (the latest year posted on the CPD Web site under statistics and reports) only four out of 313 firearm deaths were related to ANY type of rifle. Shootings involving these weapons were so rare, that you were nearly twice as likely to be beaten to death with a baseball bat than killed with what might be considered an AW. In 2003 it was six out of 442, and you were about as likely to be beaten to death by a baseball bat.

It's also disturbing that the Tribune's formal editorial position (Jan. 26) was pulled almost directly from the aggressive spin found on the Brady Campaign Web site -- point by point. For example, the Tribune noted that the "worst mass shootings in this country" have often involved semiautomatic weapons, and listed five incidents over a 22-year period that resulted in a total of 41 deaths. It is telling that the Brady Campaign had to dig back through 22 years to pump up the AW threat. While these terrible incidents grab tremendous media attention, they are, fortunately, few and far between and represent a statistically minute role in criminal homicide.

Even in the most extreme example cited by the Tribune, the San Ysidro attack where 21 people died, the most lethal of the three weapons used was an an ordinary hunting shotgun. Where mass killings are concerned (even leaving out 9/11 and the Oklahoma City Bombing), arson actually is the primary threat. A few major examples: An arsonist sets the Daegu subway fire in 2003, killing 198 people. Arson at the Happy Land Social Club killed 87 people in 1990. Three employees set the Dupont Plaza Hotel and Casino fire in 1986 killing 97 people. Philip Cline set a hotel Blaze in the Las Vegas Hilton in 1980 that killed eight people.

It is also hypocritical to focus so much on firearm deaths, when alcohol kills at a roughly comparable level. This includes numerous incidents that result in multiple homicide that are in the same general range as many of the Tribune's examples. More than a Columbine's worth of American youth die alcohol-related deaths every day (although, not in nearly as newsworthy a manner). More people under the age of 21 die from alcohol each day than people in the same age group die from all types of firearms. Where's the Tribune call to bring back prohibition? Where's the outrage from Daley and Blagojevich on this alcohol-related carnage?

And, where is the core analysis of the cost (in rights) vs. benefits. How does this regulation of legal gun owners (criminals do not obey gun laws) impact Chicago's rampant, inner-city drug crime? The suspect in the Starkesia Reed killing illegally purchased the weapon in another state. He then illegally converted it to automatic fire. Had a ban been in place it would have had absolutely no impact on Starkesia's death. Would a national ban have any more impact than the national ban on cocaine?

The editorial page is opinion, but one would expect at least some fairness in the news section on a Constitutional rights issue where clearly there are two sides of the story among both state residents and Tribune readers. Many of us own these firearms for collecting purposes, home defense, casual shooting, marksmanship shooting sports and even to hunt "pest" animals like coyotes. This particular right may not be important to the members of the Tribune editorial board (I would imagine there are few editorial voices present with an interest or background in firearms), but how about affording it at least some basic, honest journalistic analysis?
« Last Edit: March 19, 2006, 09:49:36 PM by Charon »

Offline lasersailor184

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« Reply #25 on: March 19, 2006, 10:13:53 PM »
Charon, if you need me to hold onto your m1c, I can.  That is something that is worth saving, even if it's out of state.
Punishr - N.D.M. Back in the air.
8.) Lasersailor 73 "Will lead the impending revolution from his keyboard"

Offline Yeager

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« Reply #26 on: March 20, 2006, 12:00:06 AM »
I own a nicely restored M1-Carbine.  I love the rifle.  It is one of the most intuitively operated and natural aiming weapons I have ever fired.  It is balanced and compact.   Wonderful little utility rifle.
"If someone flips you the bird and you don't know it, does it still count?" - SLIMpkns

Offline Charon

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« Reply #27 on: March 20, 2006, 05:47:15 PM »
Quote
Charon, if you need me to hold onto your m1c, I can. That is something that is worth saving, even if it's out of state.


I really hope it doesn't come to that (it's become a yearly, even multiple times per year struggle), but Ill keep it in mind lasersailor.

Charon

Offline Masherbrum

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« Reply #28 on: March 20, 2006, 06:24:09 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by lasersailor184
I don't care for any of those guns on that list except for this one.

Let it be known, that if they ban the M1 Carbine before I can get my hands on one, I will kick off the revolution that exact moment.


I'll join if that ever happens.  


Leslie, they combine "Semi-Auto" and "Assault Weapons" in the same context.  

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Offline Rino

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« Reply #29 on: March 20, 2006, 07:13:46 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Debonair
Jackson, I don't see why you're all excited about it.
Don't think we'l believe you if you tell us your 90mm has a folding stock.
duh


     Yeah, a folding stock won't do much to hide an artillery piece :D
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