So is the G-14 top speed going to be fixed?

[Angus]

Was it "Zirty" or Zirteen"....

[AutoPilot]

Note that he is following the old style nomenclature with calibres stated in cm for cannon, and in the same sentence mentions a mm calibre. If he'd really meant "30 mm", he'd very likely have called it "3 cm" there, too.

he is over 75 years old,and prolly comes from the old school way of thinking.As far as who i would believe,The nerds  of today who think they know everything?, or the 70 + year old  German fighter pilot and flight instructor?

That     is a no Brainer!

[HoHun]

Hi Autopilot,

>As far as who i would believe,The nerds  of today who think they know everything?, or the 70 + year old  German fighter pilot and flight instructor?

>That is a no Brainer!

Well, the idea that simply writing down what the "people who were there" told you resulted in accurate history was recognized as flawed by historians back in the hirst half of the 19th century.

You might just as well have told me that the steam engine has no chance to ever replace the horse for drawing wagons.

Nice opinion, just a bit outdated.

Regards,

Henning (HoHun)

[Bruno]

Originally posted by AutoPilot
he is over 75 years old,and prolly comes from the old school way of thinking.As far as who i would believe,The nerds  of today who think they know everything?, or the 70 + year old  German fighter pilot and flight instructor?

That     is a no Brainer!

I met Mr. Stigler on 2 occasions and have corresponded with him several times over the years. He will be the first to admit his memory of certain events is clouded.  I haven't heard from him since he was admitted into the hospital in Canada a few years ago.

Calling folks 'nerds' is comical coming from someone who can not even put together a coherent sentence.

I asked if you could share your 'conversation with Hartmann'? When and where did this conversation take place?

[Hawco]

Originally posted by AutoPilot
Really?I turned with you yesterday , you was in a P-51-B, i was in a 110-C.

You are a timid fighter pilot,one day you will know the true power of the Mustang at 20-K, and you should have got me.The funny thing is me and the squaddie(both in 110C's)did everything toget you to play and it wasn't until we flew away from you that you came too engage us.Point is,if you are too timid to fight 2 - 110's then what will you do against the 109?



Krusty,i have a request for a skin.One that no one else has made that i have seen yet.I respectfully request that you or someone make the
"Black Tulip" skin.I prefer Krusty as he has done some of the best skinning work yet.

I hate to rain on your parade here, but feel I must respond to this outrageous claim.

I fly mostly in the AvA and pop into the ma for some practice from time to time.
My squad mate was on and he jumped over to bish so we could have a pony V Ki fight at 20k down, you guys happened to turn up as I was waiting/looking for him, maybe you remember the KI that was inb to my position ? He was nose on for me so I turned towards him, maybe that's why you assume that I was somehow looking for you guys?
Anyway his username is Jaekart and he too is part of the 78thFG and he will vouch that my account is indeed true.
Feel free to pop into the AvA sometime and ask any of the Axis boys if they think I'm timid or do I know how to fly a pony.
Anyway, hope that clears things up.
Hawco

[AutoPilot]

Well my squaddie will also back me up on the fact there was no Ki and you would not engage until we were flying away from you, after that ploy worked you came down and as you went for the HO on me the ack got you.

Was one of the best memories from this game in a long time.I believe we have film of the encounter as well.

[MiloMorai]

Sounds like good smart tactics Hawco.   Fly away til the enemy turns for home then they are on the defensive and you the offensive. Gives one an edge.  

[Angus]

Ehh, Bruno. Regarding the value of anecdotes, they first become valuable if you read a lot of them, read them with an open mind, and DON't cherrypick.
Here's your stuff:
"Here's a quick anecdote or two:


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Me 109 E:
"In personally facing the RAF in the air over the Dunkirk encirclement, I found that the Bf 109 E was faster, possessed a higher rate of climb, but was somewhat less manouverable than the RAF fighters. Nevertheless, during the campaign, no Spitfire or Hurricane ever turned inside my plane."
- Herbert Kaiser, German fighter ace. 68 victories. Source:The Great Book of WW2 Airplanes, page 470.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



and another


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
... For us, the more experienced pilots, real manoeuvring only started when the slats were out. For this reason it is possible to find pilots from that period (1940) who will tell you that the Spitfire turned better than the Bf 109. That is not true. I myself had many dogfights with Spitfires and I could always out-turn them.

Erwin Leykauf, German fighter pilot, 33 victories. Source: Messerschmitt Bf109
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



So here you have it:

109s should out trun Spitfires..!  


Take this into scrutiny, - Kaiser's quote.
Was the BoB 109 faster than it's counterpart? Yes, and more markedly at high altitude.
Did it climb better? Mostly, untill older 109's ran into 100 octaned Spits with CS propeller and then the difference was marginal.
He mentions that the 109 was somewhat less maneuverable, but yet HE didn't get outturned. That suggests that the difference was not great, and it could boil down to the pilot and situation.
Then on to Leyklauf.
He claims the 109E turned better flat out with the slats out.
He may be right in a sense (the first circle), but generally he is not in allignement to the most of the others. Well Marseille used that trick with great effectiveness, but it means going really really slow, so better have cover. And your slats have to be in good order...

How does this match to AH? Rather well I'd say!

[Bruno]

Was the BoB 109 faster than it's counterpart? Yes, and more markedly at high altitude.

The Spitfire with 100 octane / CS prop could out climb, was faster and out turn the 109E. Even with out the 100 octane fuel the 109E was only faster above 22k or so and combat above 20k during BoB was limited.

He claims the 109E turned better flat out with the slats out.
He may be right in a sense (the first circle), but generally he is not in allignement to the most of the others. Well Marseille used that trick with great effectiveness, but it means going really really slow, so better have cover. And your slats have to be in good order...

That's not what he was saying at all. The whole anecdote reads:

Me 109 E:
"The Bf 109s also had leading edge slats. When the 109 was flown, advertently or inadvertently, too slow, the slats shot forward out of the wing, sometimes with a loud bang which could be heard above the noise of the engine. Many times the slats coming out frightenened young pilots when they flew the Bf 109 for the first time in combat. One often flew near the stalling speed in combat, not only when flying straight and level but especially when turning and climbing. Sometimes the slats would suddenly fly out with a bang as if one had been hit, especially when one had throttled back to bank steeply. Indeed many fresh young pilots thought they were pulling very tight turns even when the slats were still closed against the wing. For us, the more experienced pilots, real manoeuvring only started when the slats were out. For this reason it is possible to find pilots from that period (1940) who will tell you that the Spitfire turned better than the Bf 109. That is not true. I myself had many dogfights with Spitfires and I could always out-turn them.

One had to enter the turn correctly, then open up the engine. It was a matter of feel. When one noticed the speed becoming critical - the aircraft vibrated - one had to ease up a bit, then pull back again, so that in plan the best turn would have looked like an egg or a horizontal ellipse rather than a circle. In this way one could out-turn the Spitfire - and I shot down six of them doing it. This advantage to the Bf 109 soon changed when improved Spitfires were delivered."

He is only talking about out turning a Spitfire in under narrow circumstances. I deliberately only quoted a portion of the above because I knew some one would come in here and make up their own rationalization as to why those anecdotes could be correct. That is the problem with anecdotes, they are subjective and some folks, like you did in the above post, will go out of their way to explain 'how they could be right' despite how ambiguous or incomplete the anecdote is.

I don't know where you got your information about Marseille but he didn't get into 'slow turning fights'.

I bet I could post a made up anecdote and you would come here and tell me how it could be true, wouldn't you..?

How does this match to AH? Rather well I'd say!

You don't fly 109s, and probrably never had a proper 109E / Spit Ia fight in AH. So what are you talking about?

Tell me how anything you wrote 'matches up well with the AH Spit 1a / 109E-4'?

[plank]

Originally posted by AutoPilot
Well my squaddie will also back me up on the fact there was no Ki and you would not engage until we were flying away from you, after that ploy worked you came down and as you went for the HO on me the ack got you.

Was one of the best memories from this game in a long time.I believe we have film of the encounter as well.

1. You're wrong, or you'd have posted the film right away.
2. If that is one of your best memories of Aces High, you have set your bar very low.

[AutoPilot]

You're wrong, or you'd have posted the film right away.

No way to post film hmmmm   maybe?


I have plenty of memorys and where my bar is set is really none of your bidness, why are you worried so badly about where i set my bar?

[Angus]

Bruno, they promoted the Spit I in AH II recently right?
In AH I it was definately slower.

Anyway, this:
"You don't fly 109s, and probrably never had a proper 109E / Spit Ia fight in AH. So what are you talking about?"

Big brother, I fly 109's almost every day.
Not Emils, and not the K's though, sort of hooked on the G-14 right now.
And I had many a fight Spit I vs 109E as well as Hurry vs 109E......

109E not my favourite 109.

Oh, there is more than just Angus and just the MA. Waste your time at will scrutinizing my logs. Well Angus in the MA should reveal a slice of the cake this month....

[AutoPilot]

109E not my favourite 109

That particular plane is the key to flying all the 109's.I too fly nothing but 109's and prefer the 109-G-2 over all of them.

[Angus]

I had a hard choice between the G-2 and the F before the 14 came around.
Although the 109E has a potent firepower, I rather preferred the F.

Oh, an anecdote:

"The 109F was VERY maneuverable. When the 109G came around it was too heavy, - not as maneuverable"
Gunther Rall

[AutoPilot]

before the 14 came around.

You mean before they fixed it?