Author Topic: The Tenth Man  (Read 781 times)

Offline Karnak

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The Tenth Man
« Reply #15 on: May 10, 2001, 12:36:00 AM »
mietla,
Its just as serious and accurate as the opening post of this thread.  Both are utter simplifications that ignore nearly everything in order to make a partisan point.

Many conservatives I have talked with act as though it is useless to make higher wages in this country, as though making $537,000.00 is pretty much the same as the $53,700.00 that I make.

The facts are that I pay nearly the same percentage of my income in state and federal taxes, and I do so gladly to support this country which has given me such great opportunity.  There is a huge difference between an income of $500,000.00 and an income of $50,000.00, even after federal taxes.  I made about $43,000.00 last year, after state and federal taxes it was about $31,000.00.  Even if we assume that the tax rate on somebody making 10 times what I did is 50%, we still arrive at a total of $215,000.00.  Believe me you, there is a huge difference between $31,000.00 and $215,000.00.  The taxes in no way make being in a higher tax bracket undesirable.

We owe it to those less fortunate than ourselves to help.  This is preached over and over my virtually every religion.  However history has repeatedly shown that charity does not meet the needs of those who are unable to help themselves.  Government has proven to be far better, though still far, far from perfect, at taking care of those in need.

In those modern world that the United States of America is families can no longer subsistence farm, or work as hunter/gatherers.  It is no longer possible to live off of the land in a significant percentage of our numbers.

We could dump the needy and lazy all out on the streets, but would we want to live it that world?  Stepping over beggars, living in gate communities to try to guard against the crime that the desperate "have-nots" would wage against we, the "haves"?  I'm sure that in time, if the nation survived, things would get better, maybe even by the time we are old men and soon to die.

If we kill welfare and even the tax rate we will be making it doubly hard for those unfortunates and lazy to make it on their own, furthermore many of the jobs in their communities, be it a run down town in Appalachia or an inner city, rely on welfare recipients to stay in business.  Once those businesses fail, their employees and owners are then also thrust out onto the streets, and they are no longer purchasing goods to sell.  Thus it works its way up the chain.

Trickle down economics may not work, but I assure you, trickle up economics most certainly do.  You can glitz up the top floor of a sky scraper while having little effect on the floors below it, but if you remove the bottom floors, all the floors above them will come crashing down.

It is simply a matter of numbers.  To do as the conservatives suggest is to abandon millions of people in order to enlarge the money reserves of the already pampered thousands.

There can certainly be improvements to our system, but removing it is not one of them.

------------------
We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother

Bring the Mosquito FB.MkVI Series 2 to Aces High!!!

Sisu
-Karnak
Petals floating by,
      Drift through my woman's hand,
             As she remembers me-

MrSiD

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The Tenth Man
« Reply #16 on: May 10, 2001, 01:23:00 AM »
Mietla: I guess you skipped school totally  

That's the reality with rich people.

So if we put it to the terms of the 10th man, there is the 11th man owning the restaurant who skims the profit of the 10 morons fighting.

Progressive taxing can be a nasty thing because many times it forces the companies to make huge raises to a persons salary simply because he switches taxing level.
That is, if they really want to reward the worker.

A small raise can result in less net income, which is pretty funny.

So I guess the moral lesson here is: Invest your hard earned cash wisely, in a few years you can become the 11th man if you're lucky.

Offline Cabby

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The Tenth Man
« Reply #17 on: May 10, 2001, 03:32:00 AM »
"Rich people don't pay taxes".

Is it the public schools or the Socialist propaganda that permeates the Media that produces such ignorance?

Un-effing-believable.

Cabby
Six: "Come on Cabbyshack, let's get some!"

Offline Thud

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The Tenth Man
« Reply #18 on: May 10, 2001, 05:06:00 AM »
 
Quote
Originally posted by cabby:
"Rich people don't pay taxes".

Is it the public schools or the Socialist propaganda that permeates the Media that produces such ignorance?

Cabby

I think it might be envy???

MrSiD

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The Tenth Man
« Reply #19 on: May 10, 2001, 06:00:00 AM »
Eh.. it's not public schools..

I guess you just don't have a clue how to evade taxes and other social payments..

It's very much possible and people who can, do it. I don't see what's your problem with it. Sounds like you're jealous to the 1% (percentage of the population and amount of true income tax paid..) =)

My small salary keeps me with safe and low tax rates even though I live in one of the most taxed countries in the world.

If you want to stop paying taxes, quit your job! Nothing like taking advantage of the social security system for a year or two.. Makes a nice holiday.

[This message has been edited by MrSiD (edited 05-10-2001).]

Offline Eagler

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The Tenth Man
« Reply #20 on: May 10, 2001, 06:28:00 AM »
what miko said

the rest (Karnack, MrSid and the like) is either envy or stupidity or a combo of both

Eagler

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MrSiD

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The Tenth Man
« Reply #21 on: May 10, 2001, 08:29:00 AM »
Eagler: You're the one giving half-ass comments about the taxes and salary of the first couple lol. In my country the president does not pay taxes. He gets his salary and benefits TAX FREE!! Oh yea, the horror.

And what goes for the rest of the discussion, I told RICH people, not the ones who take a big salary.. The truly rich do not need salary to get by. If you own stock, property or whole companies, you'd have to be extremely stupid to take a big salary and pay 60-70% tax for it. The capital taxes are generally 20-25% in most countries.

And for Miko: I never said this was bad, I just gave an example that the 10 men also need the restaurant to dine in. (Although the restaurant had a different metacontext.) You're quick on attacking people on this BB  

I can only blame myself for getting in this discussion since it's clearly run by a bunch of ill-mannered trolls with a patronising attitude to go.

[This message has been edited by MrSiD (edited 05-10-2001).]

Offline Karnak

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The Tenth Man
« Reply #22 on: May 10, 2001, 10:16:00 AM »
Why, thank you Eagler.

I consider it an honor to be called stupid by somebody who believes the initial post is an accurate description of how things are and not a gross simplification.  From somebody who doesn't give a damn about his country or his fellow countrymen.  From somebody who's criteria for everything is "Does it put more money in my pocket".

I posted a reasoned explanation for my beliefs, and do you bother to refute them and make your points?  No, you just call me stupid.

As you are stooping to personal insults I will assume you have conceded the debate.

------------------
We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother

Bring the Mosquito FB.MkVI Series 2 to Aces High!!!

Sisu
-Karnak

[This message has been edited by Karnak (edited 05-10-2001).]
Petals floating by,
      Drift through my woman's hand,
             As she remembers me-