The Tenth Man

[Eagler]

A Parable: The Tenth Man

Every night, 10 men met at a restaurant for dinner. At the end of the meal, the bill would arrive. They owed $100 for the food that they shared. Every night they lined up in the same order at the cash register. The first four men paid nothing at all. The fifth, though he grumbled about the unfairness of the situation, paid $1. The sixth man, feeling generous, paid $3. The next three men paid $7, $12 and $18, respectively. The last man was required to pay the remaining balance of $59.

The 10 men were quite settled into their routine when the restaurant threw them into chaos. It announced that it was cutting down its prices: Now it would charge only $80 for dinner for the 10 men. This reduction wouldn't affect the first four men -- they would continue to eat for free. The fifth person decided to forgo his $1 contribution to the pool, and the sixth contributed $2. The seventh man deducted $2 from his usual payment and now paid $5. The eighth man paid $9, the ninth, $12, leaving the last man with a bill of $52.

Outside of the restaurant, the men compared their savings, and angry outbursts began to erupt. The sixth man yelled, "I only got $1 out of the total reduction of $20, and he" -- pointing to the last man -- "got $7." The fifth man joined in the protest. "Yeah! I only got $1 too. It is unfair that he got seven times more than me." The seventh man cried, "Why should he get a $7 reduction when I only got $2?" The first four men followed the lead of the others: "We didn't get any of the $20 reduction. Where is our share?"

The nine men formed an outraged mob, surrounding the 10th man. The nine angry men carried the 10th man up to the top of a hill and lynched him. The next night, the nine remaining men met at the restaurant for dinner. But when the bill came, there was no one to pay it.

By William F. Buckley Jr. http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/ucwb/20010428/cm/a_parable_the_tenth_man_1.html

Eagler

[1776]

Nothing like an accurate analogy!!!

[john9001]

there were 9 men left to pay the bill

[Eagler]

 

Originally posted by john9001:
there were 9 men left to pay the bill

dang john
why didn't I see that  
problem is the other 9 together didn't pay as much as the tenth one paid by himself.
but thanks for pointing that out .....oh boy.

Eagler

[fd ski]

What you forgot to mention is that 10th men dinner was better and came with a BJ, while first 4 ate scraps and their basic rights were abused to satisfy the needs of the 10th guy.

Retoric.... ain't it a wonderful thing ? And to think that you called yourself educated in a threat above...



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Bartlomiej Rajewski
aka. Wing Commander fd-ski
Northolt Wing
1st Polish Fighter Wing
303 (Polish) Squadron "Kosciuszko" RAF
308 (Polish) Squadron "City of Cracow" RAF
315 (Polish) Squadron "City of Deblin" RAF

Turning 109s and 190s into scrap metal since 1998

Northolt Wing Headquarters

[miko2d]

 

Originally posted by fd ski:
What you forgot to mention is that 10th men dinner was better and came with a BJ, while first 4 ate scraps and their basic rights were abused to satisfy the needs of the 10th guy.

Retoric.... ain't it a wonderful thing ? And to think that you called yourself educated in a threat above...

 You commit the same sin. While wealthy do consume more, they pay proportionately even more taxes - that is the gist of "progressive taxation".
 The 10th guy may have had 2 servings and a BJ but he paid for more then that!

 miko

[miko2d]

 

Originally posted by fd ski:
What you forgot to mention is that 10th men dinner was better and came with a BJ, while first 4 ate scraps and their basic rights were abused to satisfy the needs of the 10th guy.
 Retoric.... ain't it a wonderful thing ? And to think that you called yourself educated in a threat above...

 You were wrong here, fd ski. So was I in my previous reply to you.

 The parable is correct. All ten people had exactly the same dinner!
 Whatever else that 10th man has that other people don't is beside the dinner an paid for by other money that his share of dinner.
 So that second dinner and teh BJ was paid from his after-tax money!!

 For his disproportionate share of taxes rich man buys himself exactly one vote, exactly the same protection from US army, US law, etc.
 Everything else he has he buys and he gets money to buy that stuff by providing other people with services they need.

 miko

[MrSiD]

Rich men do not pay taxes, which is a fact.

They have lawyers to hide their ownings to different companies, they don't get salary so they skip income tax. They don't own their houses, cars or boats. They come from the company. If the company is profitable, it buys the rich man a bigger boat for 'recreating customers' and reduces the profit for the amount, thus paying less taxes.

Only thing the rich man pays is the capitol tax for his stock's profit, and that isn't much compared to the poor guys who have to work for their daily salary.

[Eagler]

BS MrSid:
President and Mrs. Bush Release 2000 Tax Return

THE WHITE HOUSE
Office of the Press Secretary
For Immediate Release April 13, 2001

President and Mrs. W. Bush have reported net taxable income of $744,682 for the tax year 2000. This resulted in a total of $240,342 in federal income taxes paid by President and Mrs. Bush.

The President's 2000 income includes his state salary as Governor and investment income from the state and federal blind trusts in which their assets are held.

President and Mrs. Bush contributed $143,300 to churches and charitable organizations in 2000. Of the total charitable contributions, $75,000 represents royalties from the President's book, A Charge to Keep, which were donated evenly to the following charities: the Boy Scouts of America, The Girl Scouts of America, The Boys and Girls Clubs of America, and Girls Inc (formerly the Girls Club of America).

Vice President and Mrs. Cheney Release 2000 Income Tax Return

THE WHITE HOUSE
Office of the Press Secretary
For Immediate Release April 13, 2001

FOR MORE INFORMATION CONTACT Terrence O'Donnell of Williams & Connolly LLP (202) 434-5678

Private attorneys for Vice President Dick Cheney and Mrs. Cheney announced today that the Vice President and Mrs. Cheney filed their federal income tax return for 2000 today.

The income tax return shows that for 2000, the Cheneys owe federal taxes of $14,295,058 on an adjusted gross income of $36,086,635. $9,644,701 had been previously withheld or otherwise paid, and the Cheneys paid the remaining balance due of $4,650,357 with their filing.

Included in the wage and salary income reported on the tax return is $806,332 in salary and $4,333,500 in deferred compensation and bonuses from Halliburton Company, where Mr. Cheney served as chief executive officer until he resigned on August 16, 2000. As previously reported in Halliburton's proxy statement, Mr. Cheney received a cash bonus of $1,451,398 from Halliburton in January of this year, which will be included in the 2001 tax return. The overwhelming balance of the remaining wage and salary income reported on the Cheneys? tax return was from the exercise of stock options and from the sale of restricted stock of Halliburton that Mr. Cheney received as compensation. Mr. Cheney had earned these options and restricted shares over the course of a number of years pursuant to executive compensation plans in place before Mr. Cheney was nominated.

The Vice President and Mrs. Cheney reported $1,943,948 in short-term capital losses. The bulk of these losses were incurred because the Vice President sold stocks that he and Mrs. Cheney owned in order to avoid conflicts of interest. Not all of those short-term losses are deductible against 2000 income. $1,117,439 of these losses are not useable in 2000 and have to be carried forward to future tax years. The Cheneys also reported $823,509 in long-term capital gains.

In addition to $41,646 contributed by the Cheneys to charities, they gifted the benefit of all their remaining stock options, having a value of approximately $7,800,000, to three charities. The charities chosen by the Cheneys are Capital Partners for Education, which provides educational assistance to low-income high school-age children in the Washington, D.C. area, George Washington University Medical Faculty Associates, also in Washington, D.C., and the University of Wyoming in their home state. Because the options themselves were not transferable, the gift was made through a gift administration agreement. The gift administrator is to exercise the options and donate all proceeds, after payment of taxes payable because of the exercise of the options, to the charities. The options contributed were certain options in Halliburton Company and other companies that the Cheneys had received as compensation for employment or for service on boards of directors. The estimated value of the options is reached by using valuation methods approved by the Internal Revenue Service for valuing options when given away as gifts.
_____________________________ ______________

they made alot but they paid alot too...

Eagler

[Yoj]

 

Originally posted by Eagler:
BS MrSid:
President and Mrs. Bush Release 2000 Tax Return

<Snip>
_____________________________ ______________

they made alot but they paid alot too...

Eagler

Poor example - first The Bush and Cheney families, in their position, would never pursue the potential controversy of having their taxes reduced.  Second, As good as it might look to us, those incomes are not "wealth".  With his recent raise, the president makes less than half of what the CFO of almost any large corporation does - and they are working stiffs, not the "rich". I will guarantee that Bill Gates does not pay Uncle Sam a third of his income every year.

- Yoj  

[This message has been edited by Yoj (edited 05-09-2001).]

[mrfish]

nice analogy eagler - very true despite the whines.

in fact i paid so much tax this year i now feel traumatized and my feelings are hurt. i have p.t.t.d. or 'post traumatic taxpayer disorder'. i think i should be excused from work indefinitely and sent to counseling on the government's expense. i am just too stressed out from it all. finally ! i knew if i held out long enough i could be the victim of something.....

[miko2d]

 

Originally posted by MrSiD:
Rich men do not pay taxes, which is a fact.
 They have lawyers to hide their ownings to different companies, they don't get salary so they skip income tax.

 If rich men do those things legally, what is the problem? There are laws that introduce the loopholes and they do it for a reason.
 Bad laws? Use your votes and elect representatives that will enact better laws.
 Violation of existing laws? Use your votes to make sure the judicial branch enforces the existing laws.
 Making a new law to patch a known problen of teh existing law is the worst thing to do. Who do you think will be able to take advantage of the more complex laws - you or they with full-time harward-educated lawyers and tax atterneys.
 Do you elect your congressmen by how smart and educated they are? Because that is how rich hire their lawyers and accountants, and pay them millions.

 What about a professional (like like myself) who makes many times more then average salary? I have no way to hide my earnings and no capital gains. But I work a lot and study take lot of risks.

 The stupid laws do not hit the really "idle" rich who have loopholes or at least are not so sorry to lose money they do not earn.
 They do not affect poor people directly.
 Those laws hit people like me - the most capable, productive and enterpreneural members of the society.

 That may just make me want to cut down on my hours and risks and do less software development (one of the few fields where US is still a leader) or opening new businesses or whtever. I could work half time in a risk-free environment and still live comfortably.
 After many people like me do that, do you think that a lot of honest burger-flipping employees and idle multimillionares will be enough to keep our country in the lead or improve technology, etc?

 Do you even know that every company pays tax from its profit and then a person receives a dividend or realises capital gain and pays tax the second time? Then you spend that money and pay sale tax. Ever heard of double or triple taxation?

 Where do you think that money of the rich people goes? It is either spent to purchase products or invested. In any case it goes into economy to create jobs and prosperity under carefull supervision of it's interested owners and at their risk.
 Unless that money flows out of the country to avoid taxation.

 The same money paid as taxes go into the same economy under careless and irresponcible supervision of government bureaucrats who do not care how it's spent, and at your risk.

 Money could be spent productively to stimulate economy, move technology forward and create new jobs.
 The same money can be spent with no beneficial effects whatsoever on stupid projects like schoold that do not teach and research that is useless, etc.

 Poor people in a rich country are usually better off then poor people in a poor country. A homless person receiving free healthcare in a public hospital gets better technology and treatment then an average working citizen of Russia or Ukraine - just because the society is much poorer and less technologically advanced.

 Of course many people do not care about the future as long as they get an extra piece right now, preferably earned by someone else.

 Do you even realise that progressive tax on earnings means punishment for more hard work and enterpreneurship? Like a fine, or marriage penalty. You made a little more - get fined. That will teach you how to be productive...

 The unversal truth is that smart, rich and capable people will always have advantage over poor and less capable. Especially if the society is even a little bit democratic.

 The smart society can turn their prosperity to the advantage of the whole country. The stupid one will make them find ways to exist without benefitting the society.

 I could raise my children to be experts in technology like myself, to bring progress and production to society.
 If you make laws and more complex tax codes that punish such qualities, my children will still prosper and have money and power - as lawers, tax attorneys and politicians.

 No matter what, even with taxes of 80% or absolute linmit on earnings, I and people like me will be on top. May be not as good as I could have been, but still in top 2%.
 For the starving and suffering 98% there will be no more money, no charity and no pity.
 I've lived in a country like that, (except that "top" was determined not by smarts but by connections - that's why I left and that's why they crumbled). You want to live like that?

 miko

[Karnak]

So, would you guys support a system in which we all paid equally, say $15,000.00 for each adult in the US?

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We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother

Bring the Mosquito FB.MkVI Series 2 to Aces High!!!

Sisu
-Karnak

[mietla]

 

Originally posted by MrSiD:
Rich men do not pay taxes, which is a fact.

They have lawyers to hide their ownings to different companies, they don't get salary so they skip income tax. They don't own their houses, cars or boats. They come from the company. If the company is profitable, it buys the rich man a bigger boat for 'recreating customers' and reduces the profit for the amount, thus paying less taxes.

Only thing the rich man pays is the capitol tax for his stock's profit, and that isn't much compared to the poor guys who have to work for their daily salary.

Where did you go to school, Moscow in the 50-ties?

[mietla]

 

Originally posted by Karnak:
So, would you guys support a system in which we all paid equally, say $15,000.00 for each adult in the US?

You are not serious Karnak, are you?