Author Topic: Headshake Poll (Read 2806 times)

bozon · « **Reply #60 on:** March 30, 2006, 12:55:52 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Kev367th

Realism -
Perfect Summer days
No fog
No bad weather
No night
Min 75% fuel
1940 planes up against 1945 planes
Tigers flipped by a blade of grass
Tank rounds bouncing off M3's
Tank rounds stopped by a blade of grass
GV's hiding under bomb craters
Dive bombing Lancs / B17s

Yup sure sounds realistic to me.

Good weather summer days are not realistic? where do you live, England?

Do not confuse realizm with game concessions, game design issues and exploitation by the players.

Guns shake, that is realistic. The shooter head usualy doesn't shake, BUT the way AH works is that you eyeball is glued to the gun. That is game mechanics and implementing a shake seperate from your view will be more complex. If you advocate that, maybe THE MAN will do something about it.

The zoom feature is there since we play on lower-than-life resolution 2D monitors - game concession. It is not a telescopic gunsight and players are not supposed to fire fully zoomed in as in a sniper rifle - same as buffs are not supposed to dive bomb even though they can.

If you drivers think the gun shake in unrealistic, what do you say about filling an open Osti turret with 0.5 bullets without killing the player manning the guns?

Bozon

MadSquirrel · « **Reply #61 on:** March 30, 2006, 02:09:02 AM »

Edbert:

Quote

Yeah because hitting a 350mph weaving aircraft from over a kilometer away at near 90 degree deflection with a single37mm shell is nothing like a PS2 gam3r'5 idea of realistic.

See Moils Post above. If you get tagged by a 37mm round, there were probably 1000 that missed.

Also Notice Moils Signature. "Ya Can't dodge Rain drops"

Think about that next time you see 5 Ostwinds flinging lead at you.

LTARsqrl <>

Docc · « **Reply #62 on:** March 30, 2006, 02:59:51 AM »

Sorry you got educated Bronk....but before the patch bombers with those lazer 50s could knock you down 1.5 to 1.8 out and usually did. Try shooting anything, moving or not, in an ostwind sometime before you insist there is nothing wrong. And remember, even before the patch otstis had a dispersion factor built in.......your rounds never went where you aimed them.

Edbert · « **Reply #63 on:** March 30, 2006, 08:04:52 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by MadSquirrel
Edbert:

See Moils Post above. If you get tagged by a 37mm round, there were probably 1000 that missed.

Also Notice Moils Signature. "Ya Can't dodge Rain drops"

Think about that next time you see 5 Ostwinds flinging lead at you.

LTARsqrl <>

There's a good point there, I concede that, but there's also a glaring overstatement.

What is the ROF of the 37mmHE? Lets just say 60rpm for the sake of argument, it is close to that. So your five Ostwinds can put up 300 rounds in a minute, but my fighter is only being fired at for 10-15 seconds so the number goes down to say 40-50 rounds, hardly "thousands of rounds of lead" much less a wall of it. Now if I was flying straight and level they would be much more condensed since you guys obviously have figured out how to lead (pronounced leed not led, LOL) a target. But If I am maneuvering then the bubble that contains those 40 rounds has to get spread out unless you have predicted the path of the evasive. Combine an unpredictable path with the fact that I am 350mph (or more, just stating low for the sake of argument) during those 10-15 seconds means I have travelled very close to mile in the 10 second window. So you still have 40 rounds spread out in a bubble stretched over a mile. Hardly a rain shower.

I'm not trying to diminish the accomplishments of the LTARs in the Ostwinds, generally speaking I stay away from FPs anyhow. I am just hoping you can see that the former ability to snipe with them was gamey is all.

SlapShot · « **Reply #64 on:** March 30, 2006, 08:39:09 AM »

I've got skills numchuck skills ...

You must have wacked yourself one too many times.

They are called ... Nunchakus.

Docc · « **Reply #65 on:** March 30, 2006, 08:48:59 AM »

Edbert........if what you say is true and your fighter should not get hit by AA, how did all those fighters die in WW2 from AA fire? A gun would not be manufactured to shoot down planes if it was not designed to be capable of doing so.

We had a weakened version of AA before the last patch and now its even weaker. Right now I'd say the odds of hitting a plane within 1.5k from a manned ack are about 15% and about 5% from an osti unless you come straight at the gun.....then the odds go up to 25-30% but not much higher because the aiming point for the gun changes due to shell ballistics faster than the gun will fire. Usually the fighter will kill the ack before it can kill him if the fighter fires from 1k out as most do in this game. So, stay away from the acks if you think your survivabilty is too threatened. The acks never survive.

The hit percentage of a good field gunner is usually way under 1%. Osti is even worse.

Edbert · « **Reply #66 on:** March 30, 2006, 09:07:46 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Docc
Edbert........if what you say is true and your fighter should not get hit by AA, how did all those fighters die in WW2 from AA fire? A gun would not be manufactured to shoot down planes if it was not designed to be capable of doing so.

We had a weakened version of AA before the last patch and now its even weaker. Right now I'd say the odds of hitting a plane within 1.5k from a manned ack are about 15% and about 5% from an osti unless you come straight at the gun.....then the odds go up to 25-30% but not much higher because the aiming point for the gun changes due to shell ballistics faster than the gun will fire. Usually the fighter will kill the ack before it can kill him if the fighter fires from 1k out as most do in this game. So, stay away from the acks if you think your survivabilty is too threatened. The acks never survive.

The hit percentage of a good field gunner is usually way under 1%. Osti is even worse.

Where did I say "my fighter should not be hit by ack"? That first statement is so ridiculous that I almost did not reply. If "what I say is true" is simple mathmatics, 360mph means you travel one mile in ten seconds. 60 rounds per minute means you fire 15 shots in 15 seconds. The good thing about math is you don't have to takes somoene's word for it or have faith in their personal viewpoint.

If I have cannons the acks are toast, simple as that, and I agree they should be harder to target when they are not firing instead of being so exposed in those little dirt bullseyes. But I don't agree that they should be hardened, a few 20mm HE rounds going off in your office will ruin your whole day. If I have nothing but MGs in my plane I tend to avoid acks and only take them on when they are busy firing at someone else. If it is an osti and I don't have ord I get REALLY cautious, I can fill their open turret with .50 cals and not kill the gunner but he can snipe me from 1K away with his scope.

I'd also be in favor of doubling or tripling the number of acks at a base, mainly witha mix of small caliber and multi-barrelled installations. I do agree with you that supressing a base's defenses is too easy for a lone plane. Add in a horde and it is rediculous. But to be honest, field capture has been SO easy for the last decade (warbirds and AH) that defense is pretty pointless anyhow, offense is how you "W11n teh WAA@@R!!one".

Docc · « **Reply #67 on:** March 30, 2006, 09:27:27 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Edbert
I'd also be in favor of doubling or tripling the number of acks at a base, mainly witha mix of small caliber and multi-barrelled installations. I do agree with you that supressing a base's defenses is too easy for a lone plane. Add in a horde and it is rediculous. But to be honest, field capture has been SO easy for the last decade (warbirds and AH) that defense is pretty pointless anyhow, offense is how you "W11n teh WAA@@R!!one".

Can't get much smaller caliber or shorter range than what we've got now......unless you start handing out M1s. 88s were plentiful but we don;t have them. (I don't count the puffy ack at fields because we have no control over it and it only seems to affect a certain few people who are magnets for it.)

But there lies the true problem; defence is limited and offence wins 'the war'. Usually, only the side with numbers can successfully go on offence, and the other 2 countries have little to counter with as the game currently stands.

Bronk · « **Reply #68 on:** March 30, 2006, 09:32:32 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Docc
Edbert........if what you say is true and your fighter should not get hit by AA, how did all those fighters die in WW2 from AA fire? A gun would not be manufactured to shoot down planes if it was not designed to be capable of doing so.

Well it wasn't from 6 ostis thats for sure. More like 100's of 88s I'd think.

Bronk

Docc · « **Reply #69 on:** March 30, 2006, 09:40:44 AM »

The LTARs have the deserved reputation of being the best gv gunners in this game.......aside from Zazen (I still haven't figured out how he does it).

So instead of surviving like the rest, Edbert was killed by the best.

MadSquirrel · « **Reply #70 on:** March 30, 2006, 01:12:09 PM »

Edbert, how many passes did you make before getting tagged? How many other aircraft were being shot at. It might have been as simple as you running into a round ment for someone else. Or the fact that when you lead a plane from 1.0 out you are a good 100 to 200k in front of him. Or it might be that when there are a lot of planes in the are, I hold the trigger down just like they did. Lead To Air Ratio. Might not even be aiming at a target, but something might fly into one of my rounds. And it happens a lot. I have gotten kill on people 2.5 to 3.0 out. Not that I was aiming at them, they just happened to run into a stray round. But don't tell them that. Reputation ya see.

With the headshake the way it is now, that is about the only way I can hit anything cause I can't look at the screen while shooting without much discomfort.

I haven't been on much since the patch for that fact. I play this game for the GVs. Now with the headshake, I can't even do that. Game over till it is fixed for me except for limited time. Sure not getting my $14.95 worth anymore.

LTARsqrl <>

Edbert · « **Reply #71 on:** March 30, 2006, 02:42:27 PM »

I just looked at the scoring pages and I have not killed an Ostwind all year and have died to one this year. I also have not killed or been killed by an LTAR in 7 months (got tired of looking back farther). So this discussion angle where I am getting whacked by LTARs is misplaced.

I simply do not enjoy the A2G part of AH and do not engage in it much, and like I said if I don't have ord (which is 99%) of the time I stay the hell away from Osties. I know that many of my deaths to flakpanzers happened when I was engaging an A2A target and got dragged over one, or was in some way engaged with something else. But when I see one I generally go low, fast, evasive, and offer small profile high deflection shots to them. Sometimes they get lucky I guess.

JMFJ · « **Reply #72 on:** March 30, 2006, 02:51:06 PM »

LTARSqrl You have a PM

JMFJ

ChopSaw · « **Reply #73 on:** March 30, 2006, 04:29:03 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Docc
Sorry you got educated Bronk....but before the patch bombers with those lazer 50s could knock you down 1.5 to 1.8 out and usually did. Try shooting anything, moving or not, in an ostwind sometime before you insist there is nothing wrong. And remember, even before the patch otstis had a dispersion factor built in.......your rounds never went where you aimed them.

Who was killing targets at 1.5 to 1.8 with buff guns before the patch?! Even in AH1 they had to be at least within 1.4 and even then it took a sustained firing solution and a lot of ammo. The 50 cal just doesn’t have the energy at that range. In AH2 before the patch you'd be lucky to get a single hit sprite at 1.4. They'd have to get within 1.0 before you could do significant damage and even then it took a sustained burst or a fair amount of luck. Realistically we'd be wasting ammo on anything beyond 800. Post patch it's the same way. It's just harder to aim now. A lot harder.

I'm with you on the Ostwinds of course.

ChopSaw · « **Reply #74 on:** March 30, 2006, 04:40:34 PM »

In real life we can see targets much better. The computer screen gives us a much reduced capability. I'd always thought the zoom feature was meant to compensate for that just as there are many other compensations within the game to make it emulate real life.

To suddenly make it difficult to use the compensation of zoom is to cripple selected players based upon their preference in rides. Bombers or gv's.

The shake was added to increase immersion. I hope the side effects of this were unanticipated and that the shakes will be taken out in the next patch. Whenever that is.