Author Topic: Solution to Dive Bombing Buffs.  (Read 2365 times)

Offline indy007

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Solution to Dive Bombing Buffs.
« Reply #15 on: March 29, 2006, 10:27:32 AM »
Shoot the balloon down first?

Offline ChopSaw

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Solution to Dive Bombing Buffs.
« Reply #16 on: March 29, 2006, 10:42:12 PM »
Interesting idea, but wouldn't the fighter guys hate it when they ran into them?

Offline Jackal1

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Solution to Dive Bombing Buffs.
« Reply #17 on: March 29, 2006, 10:47:36 PM »
All the balloons should have a different points award wrote on the. Also , there should be one bright red one at each base with POWERUP on it. :)
I think this goes to the top of the list labeled.......Top Ten Lamest Ideas.

I still haven`t got my tuneable Tokyo Rose broadcasts in the cockpit yet and you want ballons. Shameless. :rofl
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Offline Toad

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Solution to Dive Bombing Buffs.
« Reply #18 on: March 29, 2006, 11:14:26 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by ChopSaw
Interesting idea, but wouldn't the fighter guys hate it when they ran into them?


The very best fur occurs mid-way between fields or carriers, a place where there probably wouldn't be any balloons.

So, if balloons moved the fights towards mid-way, that would be another plus.
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Offline ChopSaw

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Solution to Dive Bombing Buffs.
« Reply #19 on: March 29, 2006, 11:19:50 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Toad
The very best fur occurs mid-way between fields or carriers, a place where there probably wouldn't be any balloons.

So, if balloons moved the fights towards mid-way, that would be another plus.

Well now I'm sold.  :aok  Of course..........you're going to have a hard sell with the guys who like to pad their scores by vulching.

Offline Toad

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Solution to Dive Bombing Buffs.
« Reply #20 on: March 29, 2006, 11:22:16 PM »
They're not furballers.... so who cares.  :)
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Offline DoKGonZo

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Solution to Dive Bombing Buffs.
« Reply #21 on: March 29, 2006, 11:29:45 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by ChopSaw
Well now I'm sold.  :aok  Of course..........you're going to have a hard sell with the guys who like to pad their scores by vulching.


Just flashed on an image of the typical La-7 fiueld vultcher pranging a wing on the cables at 500 mph. :lol :rofl

"Friendly mode" would lead to all kinds of weird abuse.

And wouldn't the baloons just become an aerial toolshed? Or would they be indestructable?

Offline MOIL

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Re: Re: Solution to Dive Bombing Buffs.
« Reply #22 on: March 29, 2006, 11:44:53 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Vad
Nice...

999000 destroyed VH from 30 000 feet (any doubts he can?) , and after that there is no protection against horde of LTARs coming in GV.

When's the last time you saw that ?

Yeah all 6-7 of us will "horde" on your base with some Jeeps and a tank:rolleyes:

Offline StracCop

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Solution to Dive Bombing Buffs.
« Reply #23 on: March 30, 2006, 12:22:29 AM »
I haven't tried it yet but can you still dive
bomb with Ju-88's without losing the wings?

After all, the thing is designed for that role.
Just wondering...

Offline Pooh21

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Solution to Dive Bombing Buffs.
« Reply #24 on: March 30, 2006, 01:22:26 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by StracCop
I haven't tried it yet but can you still dive
bomb with Ju-88's without losing the wings?

After all, the thing is designed for that role.
Just wondering...

*cough*dive brakes*cough*
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Offline Kweassa

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Solution to Dive Bombing Buffs.
« Reply #25 on: March 30, 2006, 01:57:53 AM »
There are two solutions to fixing this 'problem'.


1. The first one would be a technical, short-term solution.

 AH simulates the essence WW2 of aerial combat. While the game itself is NOT a full-scale representation of realistic WW2 situations, the general purpose of the game as expected by many gamers IMO. is to maintain at least some kind of realistic standard towards aerial combat as performed in real-life WW2. Therefore, ahistorical or even unrealistic implementations and 'concessions' do exist in the game - which purpose (ironically) is to strengthen the overall "situational realism" as opposed to "technical realism".

 A good example would be the combat trim or the auto-retracting flaps.

 On a technical point of view, these artificial devices are unrealistic and no such thing existed in real life planes. However, situationally, the combat trim helps fill the problems caused by lack of real-life stick input and feel, and thus, preventing the game from becoming trimming madness as unknown in real life. Likewise, the auto-retraction of flaps simulates the tendency of real-life pilots to abide by operating procedures of the plane, since intentionally neglecting procedures by using flaps at forbidded speed-zones was hardly anything normal in real life combat.

 Therefore, the short-term solution is by introducing a simple 'inhibition' gadget or procedure to discourage people from 'divebombing' in level bombers.

 The fact that it might be 'technically possible' for some bombers to drop bombs while diving at certain angles, is not important. The only thing important is the simple fact: no WW2 level bomber in history ever dropped bombs like that on any kind of regular mission flight. Technicaly possible or not, they did not do that stuff, period.

 So, add in a simple inhibition;

* Allow bombs to be dropped only at the 'F6' bombardier's position.

 The bombardier's position auto-levels the plane, and thus, prevents people from maneuvering bombers and dropping their payload during dives. It also prevents 'scatter bombing' and 'wildly swerving bombdrops'. While this small implementation does not necessarily inhibit the altitude of the bombrun, the auto-levelled status of the plane, and narrow field of view forced by looking at the bombsight, will naturally urge the bomber pilots to drop their bombs at a higher altitude, with calibrated sights.
 
* Add mannable 88mm anti-aircraft guns to the field.

 While there could be many methods on how this might be added in, the important point would be to make the 88mms not very lethal against maneuvering fighters, but deadly lethal against low and slow bombers.

 Perhaps the 'gunner' might have to observe an approaching plane and 'set the aim' of the 88mm flak, as one might set the calibration of a bombsight. Find a target, 'lock on' the icon, press a certain 'aim' key for more than 10 seconds, and an approximate 'aiming point' might appear in the screen. An 88mm gun aimed this way will be quite useless against fighters near a field that constantly changes speed and heading, but it'd be very lethal against planes travelling at a certain set heading and speed - especially low-alt bombers.





2. The long-term and fundamental solution.

 The long-term and fundamnetal solution would be to redo the MA strat and change the mechanics of the game, so that airfield are NOT the prime tactical/strategical targets of the game. Hitting individual airfields and capturing them was a good idea when the MA had only 150 people with 50 pilots in three countries. However, with 500 people and 160~170 pilots per side it doesn't seem to be doing very well.
 
 There could be many ideas on how strat can change, but to pick out a few;


* Changing land-grab mechanics

 Capturing fields and enlarging territories, should perhaps become a result of an overall and consistent amount of attack an a given area - not as a result of attacking a single 'point'.

 If this is successfully implemented in the game, attacking an individual field and its hangars, might become less important than attacking other facilities of tactical worth scattered around the entire area, and thus the bombers will target start targetting something else, rather than choose to come in and start spraying at FHs.

* Implementing delayed attrition to the strat system

 The effect of hitting individual factories or city structures is hardly worth the effort in the current system. If the strat changes so that hitting a certain facility consistently over a long period of time with large amounts of ordnance, can start effecting the airfield resources on a global scale, then the bombers will finally have a real 'strategic' target to go after, instead of playing the over-bloated tactical/suicidal jabo role.

 For instance, a fuel facility set deep inside the enemy factory controls the amount of fuel available at individual fields. If this factory is pounded for days(in-game time) with huge amounts of ord., the cumulated effects will start to show, and the fuel situation of the enemy country will worsen on a global scale, and this effect will go on for a long time.

 But to achieve such a destructive blow the attacking nation will have to succeed in large-scale bombing raids regularly. An isolated sneak attack mission will do nothing to the fuel-production efficiency. Or 3~4 dweebs going NOE with Lancs will also do nothing.

Offline Jackal1

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« Reply #26 on: March 30, 2006, 09:30:48 AM »


Blimps with lazers. Nuff said. :rofl
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Offline ChopSaw

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Solution to Dive Bombing Buffs.
« Reply #27 on: March 30, 2006, 04:10:56 PM »
Kweassa

I proposed, in another thread, the F6 fix in combination with an inclinometer lock out.  The F6 alone wouldn't stop the use of heavy bombers in a dive bombing manner.  Pilots could simply start their dive, line up and jump to the F6 position to snap the bombs off.  However, combined with an inclinometer lock out it might work.  Unfortunately HT does not share this viewpoint.  He posted on the thread expressing the view that either or both of these changes would merely be accommodated and worked around by those who wish to dive bomb with heavies.

I'm not crazy about the 88mm solution.  It seems that would kill high bombers just about as well as low ones.  I'm sure there are many who would not see that as a problem, but as a bomber guy it wouldn't be that great.

I like your ideas on the strat system and hope we'll see something like them in ToD/CT.  At this point I'd welcome almost any change to or alternate to the strat system in MA.

Regards,
ChopSaw

Offline hitech

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Solution to Dive Bombing Buffs.
« Reply #28 on: March 30, 2006, 04:27:36 PM »
Quote
AH simulates the essence WW2 of aerial combat.


This is not goal in the main arena. You seem to foget drasticly fighter items that are not even close. Is not 1 of the fighters main roles to escort bombers. So under you view you should not be able to up a fighter unless you are escorting a bomber, because thats the way it was done in the war.

You also seem to foget the same dive bombing tacktic that can be use by suisiding fighters to kill CV's. Where is the out cry for this none realism.

These 1 sided realism arguments have been getting under my skin as of late.


HiTech

Offline hubsonfire

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« Reply #29 on: March 30, 2006, 04:57:13 PM »
Realism is really a mixed bag, and while we're all a little myopic when discussing that topic, a lot of people seem to feel that bombers have been given all sorts of easy-outs from realism, while fighters have fewer.

This may not be entirely true, but that's what it looks like to me. Having flown bombers since AW3, I know I feel that way, and I know some others do as well, but I don't pretend to speak for the entire community

Give us single bombers again, no formations, just for one or two tours. Leave bombers as they are in all other regards. Divebombing, stallfighting, etc. Make bombers just slightly more realistic, without sweeping changes to everything else, if only as an experiment.

See what happens.

Or, just let me in to closed testing on CT. I'll stay off the bbs for a whole camp. C'mon, you and Skuzzy would have to love that. ;)
« Last Edit: March 30, 2006, 05:36:21 PM by hubsonfire »
mook
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