Author Topic: Why unions still suck (Read 3463 times)

Choocha · « **Reply #165 on:** April 03, 2006, 11:22:10 AM »

just an example, GM has no control over half its work force

We have an expression, "the inmates are running the asylum." That sums it up.

Toad · « **Reply #166 on:** April 03, 2006, 11:43:17 AM »

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Originally posted by Shamus
So sleeping tool and die guys in the pattern shop is the reason that GM is producing so many models that no one wants to buy, OK got it!!!!

shamus

Pwned!

Don't forget Ford.

It's those dang tool and die guys! They're screwing up ALL the designs!

Ford, GM Sales Down 23 Percent

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But Ford and GM have problems attracting consumers that clearly seem to go beyond any seasonal, short-term issues. They have been bleeding market share to Toyota and other Asian rivals as some of their bread-and-butter vehicles lose appeal on Main Street.

If only we could get the guy that bolts on the bumper to design a better car!

Ripsnort · « **Reply #167 on:** April 03, 2006, 11:49:10 AM »

Regarding skills that America is losing out to high tech job markets, recently I was at a Toro dealer. He had something like 150 lawn mowers in the back waiting for some sort of service. I asked him why the big back log, he said its very difficult to find small engine repairmen these days since all the kids are going after high tech jobs. He's only got 1 mechanic and is in desperate need for more. (shrugs)

GtoRA2 · « **Reply #168 on:** April 03, 2006, 12:18:51 PM »

I dont think anyone is saying ford and GM are going under because of unions, just that they are part of the problem. Bad management and bad products that don't apeal to anyone are just as big of a problem.

Without solving all three they are boned.

Toad · « **Reply #169 on:** April 03, 2006, 12:56:18 PM »

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Originally posted by GtoRA2
IBad management and bad products that don't apeal to anyone are just as big of a problem.

It's the BIGGEST problem.

Ford might produce the "perfectly built" Focus that rolls off the line without a single assembly or paint flaw. GM could do the same with a Malibu.

Neither one will outsell the Camry or the Accord.

Management makes the build decisions. They aren't building what the people want to buy except in a very few market segments. Mostly, they are ceding entire segments to foreign companies through their lack of innovation and lack of vision.

The US still owns the pickup market but look around; that may be about to change too. And it won't have a single thing to do with the UAW. It will have to do with Honda, Toyo and Nissan building what folks really want in a pickup.

Shamus · « **Reply #170 on:** April 03, 2006, 01:24:43 PM »

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Originally posted by Choocha

We have an expression, "the inmates are running the asylum." That sums it up.

Thats odd, I have heard some of the financial staff at GM say that exact same thing about engineers.

shamus

P.S. you know the "bean counter v car guy thing". They both will blame the hourly guy when the **** hits the fan though.

Toad · « **Reply #171 on:** April 03, 2006, 01:28:56 PM »

If the inmates are running the asylum, what does that say about the quality and capability of the asylum's management?

Choocha · « **Reply #172 on:** April 03, 2006, 02:32:54 PM »

Not much managemnt can do when the snake is around thier neck and squeezing.

I spent many of my years comming up with proposials that were not accepted because of "political" reasons i.e. would piss off some union ass****.

I did enjoy, whenever, possible putting them of the street. I luved seeing them go from GM to Taco Bell and then getting fired from Taco Bell cause they couldn't keep up.

LOL...

Toad · « **Reply #173 on:** April 03, 2006, 04:09:46 PM »

At long last we now KNOW the reason why the US car makers can't conceive of, design and build a car that looks, lasts and works as well as a Camry or an Accord, even though they've had 20 years to study the Accords and Camrys.

It's because of the Union ASSEMBLY LINE workers.

Gotcha.

Toad · « **Reply #174 on:** April 03, 2006, 04:20:55 PM »

Or could it be that US car engineers are the suxxors and can't match the competition?

Choocha · « **Reply #175 on:** April 03, 2006, 04:36:24 PM »

Frog,

Read my above post. Salaried workers are paid market rate and held accountable. Hourly workers are paid 3 times thier market rate and not held accountable in any way for thier actions. GM has many problems. Management has made some bone headed decesions, no doubt.

Again, the UAW is involved in the design and engineering of a vehicle from the start. Hell, we still have "Clay Ferries," on staff eventhough clay protoyping is now only done for show. So we have 5 times the number of them required but can't get rid of them because the Union Protects them.

If they were salaried, they would have been gone along time ago (rightfuly so).

Frog, you must be 12 because you keep rendering things down into simple management vs Union when it is infinately more complex than that. But I will say, BAR FAR THE WEAKEST PART OF THE BUSINESS STARTS AND ENDS WITH THE UAW.

Toad · « **Reply #176 on:** April 03, 2006, 05:10:02 PM »

The weakest part of the business is people that don't respect other people.

See your post heading for an example.

The second weakest part is leadership that can't come up with a realistic counter to the Camry or Accord in 20+ years.

No matter how you slice it, the working stiffs only bolt together what the outstanding engineers design and far-sighted and innovative management envision and approve.

Hey... wait a minute.... it could be just that the managers and engineers keep lying to themselves about where to place the true blame. Maybe that's why Detroit continues to lose out to Japanese competition.

Watch that pickup truck segment, the last bastion of Detroit sales... it may be the next to go.

Motor Trend Names 2006 Truck Of The Year

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With two full weeks of thudding over concrete, howling around tight curves and bouncing over rocky roadways, Motor Trend editors unanimously awarded 2006 Honda Ridgeline to be Truck of the Year.

Motor Trend Selects 2005 Truck Of The Year

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“The new Tacoma is a good example of Toyota listening to its customers and delivering the best materials, fit and finish for its price class,” said Angus MacKenzie, editor in chief of Motor Trend. “Buyers get Toyota’s legendary durability and quality in a beautifully built little truck. Proving there is no penalty for buying a reasonably priced, more fuel-efficient truck, especially significant in this time of rising fuel prices, the 2005 Toyota Tacoma is truly deserving of the title of Motor Trend Truck of the Year.”

Hangtime · « **Reply #177 on:** April 03, 2006, 05:32:25 PM »

Nuclear Cars.

Rolex · « **Reply #178 on:** April 03, 2006, 05:55:23 PM »

You want to know how dense the management of Ford and GM are? They can't understand why they have almost no market share in Japan.

Would you buy a car in the US if the steering wheel was on the right and all the switch and panel markings were written in Japanese?

Now, I know you're probably thinking, "What? No company could be that stupid to not localize their product..."

They must have cement blocks sitting on their shoulders. If Japanese carmakers were as smart as American carmakers, you wouldn't see a Japanese car on the road.

Shamus · « **Reply #179 on:** April 03, 2006, 06:12:56 PM »

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Originally posted by Rolex
You want to know how dense the management of Ford and GM are? They can't understand why they have almost no market share in Japan.

Would you buy a car in the US if the steering wheel was on the right and all the switch and panel markings were written in Japanese?

Now, I know you're probably thinking, "What? No company could be that stupid to not localize their product..."

They must have cement blocks sitting on their shoulders. If Japanese carmakers were as smart as American carmakers, you wouldn't see a Japanese car on the road.

Back in 1978 GM had a right hand drive car in production for japan, however the UAW screwed all of them up and put the steering wheel on the wrong side.

The corporation was stuck with 850,000 cars with japanese labeled controls and the wheel on the wrong side...it cost billions!! damned UAW.

shamus