Author Topic: How effective are dive bombing buffs? Are they really a problem?  (Read 1169 times)

Offline ChopSaw

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I'm not an advocate of using buffs for JABO, just wondering if it's a real problem.

Many find it annoying and many would like to see a "solution" to the "problem".  I've always used buffs to level bomb, so I don't know from experience how effective a buff is when used as a dive bomber.  From all I've observed, a level style of bombing is far more effective (i.e. more damage done per trip).

If it isn't as effective as level bombing, is there really anything to gripe about?  Shouldn't we just let JABO buffs waste their time?  I can remember having a lot of fun shooting them down with Ostwinds.  Three of us shot down wave after wave of these guys.  They never did get enough ordnance on the target they wanted.  The fighter guys seemed to like the low altitude targets too.

Offline Pooface

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How effective are dive bombing buffs? Are they really a problem?
« Reply #1 on: March 31, 2006, 02:54:49 PM »
its true! i dont see dive bombing buffs very often, and if i do, they're easy kills. buffs are far more accurate and effective if used properly

Offline Slash27

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How effective are dive bombing buffs? Are they really a problem?
« Reply #2 on: March 31, 2006, 03:18:14 PM »
Dive bombing bombers are effective as they are lame.

Offline Urchin

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How effective are dive bombing buffs? Are they really a problem?
« Reply #3 on: March 31, 2006, 03:29:44 PM »
Not effective at all.  That is why when a base is under attack by GVs you rarely, if ever, see a formation of Lancs roll after someone dies in a jabo a couple times.

Offline hubsonfire

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How effective are dive bombing buffs? Are they really a problem?
« Reply #4 on: March 31, 2006, 04:06:35 PM »
Extremely effective. If it didn't work, you'd have never heard a word about it.
mook
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Offline wetrat

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How effective are dive bombing buffs? Are they really a problem?
« Reply #5 on: March 31, 2006, 04:08:41 PM »
It's just as easy as dive bombing in a fighter, except you get 20x as many bombs.
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Offline PropNut

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How effective are dive bombing buffs? Are they really a problem?
« Reply #6 on: March 31, 2006, 04:54:54 PM »
Very effective  ...Just try saving a CV  from a flock of diving Lancs. dropping 42,000 lbs of bombs   :furious   As Slash says just as lame too.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2006, 04:57:45 PM by PropNut »

Offline Masherbrum

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How effective are dive bombing buffs? Are they really a problem?
« Reply #7 on: March 31, 2006, 05:56:28 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Slash27
Dive bombing bombers are effective as they are lame.


Couldn't agree more.
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Offline RTSigma

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How effective are dive bombing buffs? Are they really a problem?
« Reply #8 on: March 31, 2006, 06:35:41 PM »
I've actually seen people use JU88s in divebombing runs, just how they would be used (actually, a steep drive rather than the traditional invert ad pull back) but more often than not, divebombing buffs miss since they aren't calibrated!

Sigma of VF-17 JOLLY ROGERS

Offline Zazen13

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How effective are dive bombing buffs? Are they really a problem?
« Reply #9 on: March 31, 2006, 06:52:04 PM »
As someone who defends horded bases alot I see two types of buffs... Those at 15k+ pin-point hitting strats and those under that divebombing strats..There's about an equal number of each, so 50% of all buffs in the air either intend to or decide to dive bomb with them...


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Offline ChopSaw

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How effective are dive bombing buffs? Are they really a problem?
« Reply #10 on: March 31, 2006, 06:53:35 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by PropNut
Very effective  ...Just try saving a CV  from a flock of diving Lancs. dropping 42,000 lbs of bombs   :furious   As Slash says just as lame too.

See?  That's the point I'm curious about.  It takes a flock of dive bombing Lancs to down a CV.  I can down two CV's with one formation of B-24's when used as level bombers.

Seems from that, level bombing is far more effective.  I know they do, but I can't figure how these guys are getting through a fighter screen and 5" guns.  Nobody manning the guns?
« Last Edit: March 31, 2006, 07:00:35 PM by ChopSaw »

Offline tedrbr

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How effective are dive bombing buffs? Are they really a problem?
« Reply #11 on: March 31, 2006, 07:12:27 PM »
Heck...24's... I got more luck I than deserved one day and dropped a carrier with a tight Ki-67 drop in level bombing right up the stern from 10K.... far as I could tell the CV had no previous damage.

(And before the CV's-too-easy-to-sink crowd comes out....you want to protect a CV?... put up some CAP to protect the thing!  An unprotected CV in enemy waters deserves to sink......)

Ju-88's can dive bomb decently.  Designed to.  B-26's...level bomb...low..., then go a strafing.  67's, 17's, 24's, Lancs.....never try to dive bomb..... I'm accurate enough when level bombing even at high altitude.  Too easy if you just follow the basics.

Offline Zazen13

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How effective are dive bombing buffs? Are they really a problem?
« Reply #12 on: March 31, 2006, 07:14:22 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by tedrbr
..... I'm accurate enough when level bombing even at high altitude.  Too easy if you just follow the basics.


You're exactly right it is too easy, let's bring back the more complicated calibration procedures...

Zazen
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Offline MadSquirrel

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How effective are dive bombing buffs? Are they really a problem?
« Reply #13 on: March 31, 2006, 07:15:19 PM »
They don't calibrate, they use the F3 view and drop from there.  Ostwinds usually will kill most of them, but they take up to 7 hits sometimes more some times less to kill one buff.  Now multiply that times three and you can see that they will usually get the bomb load off.

One well-known low level buff driver, as of this post, is showing 247 kills in B-17s, and 794 deaths in them.  That is really effective isn't it?  

As stated in other posts, it is a problem if you spend a lot of time on the ground defending bases.  A formation of 3 Lancaster’s dropping 42,000 pounds of ordinance to kill one defending ground vehicle using dive and loop tactics happens quite often.  I have evaded some of these attacks, but more often than not you can't get out of the range of three 4000-pound bombs no matter how you evade.  I can say that I am fair at "Gunning and Running" but you can't get out of the way of three Lancaster’s flying 200 feet off the ground and dropping there entire load to kill ya.

The Ju88 was designed to be a shallow dive-bomber, but the Lancaster’s, B-24s and B-17s (Heavy Buffs) were not.  They are the main problem.  Why up Jus when I can do the same thing with Lancaster’s with no consequence.

Urchin:
I have seen lots of times when Lancaster’s continue to drop on GV spawns.  Then reload and up again and again.  It will continue until either one GV or possibly a fly guy kills the ordinance, or Cap is established and maintained.  And on the down side, when cap is established, once a few kills are made, the cap usually runs home to "Cash the Kills".
But this is just low level buff work.  Not the dive bombing that is the main topic.

Dive Bombing Buffs are just for dweebs that can't hit crap with a jabo.  It is like a shotgun verses a sniper rifle.  One doesn't take hardly any skill at all to exploit.
 
2- 1000 lbs. bombs VS. 42,000 lbs. in mixed ords. to kill an Jeep.  What would the noob take.  :rofl

LTARsqrl  <>:aok

Offline hubsonfire

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How effective are dive bombing buffs? Are they really a problem?
« Reply #14 on: March 31, 2006, 07:46:25 PM »
Funny, I know exactly the bomber pielut you're talking about too. I looked up his score just to be sure, and whaddayaknow... He's the perfect example of everything that's wrong with bombers in AH.

BTW, Urchin's being sarcastic. ;)
mook
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