Delta Strike

[Choocha]

Pilot,


Pfft....Was he pulling banners on the beach, spraying crops ..or what?  I feel sorry for those guys but the Union that rep's the "heavy's" has a scam going.  I know a few pilots...one fly's to Korea twice a month and thats it.  makes like 200k.



good scam if you got it....



GO JET BLUE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Arlo]

Unfortunately ... not all Delta employees are pilots. Nor are they union. And they don't get to negotiate.

[LePaul]

When it comes to airline pilots pay, I tend to feel they earn every dollar.  My best friend is a American Airlines pilot doing the regional jets.  If he's home 3 days in a month, that's pretty remarkable.  He used to be based out of Boston, so he could get home more often, but they shoved him to Chicago (low seniority).  So between the away from home time and some of the crap weather they have to fly in...I'm all for that professional, experienced dude being up front.  There are some things you hate to go cheap on.

Choocha...you're just showing your ignorance trying to post a few witty retorts.  Give it up.

[Choocha]

LePaul,


You fail to understand whats going on.  It's true that regional guys get boned.  I know one that was on wellfare to support his family.  THATS WRONG.



THE UNION FOR THE HEAVY's IS DIFFRENT AND THEY GOT A SERIOUS SCAM GOING.



LePaul,

Do some reasearch before spouting off.

[LePaul]

I've done much more than you, if you bother to follow the thread.

But by all means, continue to be a tard.  We all appreciate the entertainment

[Hangtime]

Originally posted by Choocha
Pilot,


Pfft....Was he pulling banners on the beach, spraying crops ..or what?  I feel sorry for those guys but the Union that rep's the "heavy's" has a scam going.  I know a few pilots...one fly's to Korea twice a month and thats it.  makes like 200k.



good scam if you got it....



GO JET BLUE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

^^^

Always nice to see some box shifter, siding hanger or professional student 'pffft' the guys that did the homework, got the degrees, joined the service, flew in combat and pilot todays airliners. Guys that daily hold in their hands the lives of hundreds.. thousands of citizens. Guys that worked for next to nothing for 10-15 years to gain the experience and finally get to the top of their carreers only to have their skill set and competence and the pay they get as a reward for their lifetime of work'pffft'ed.

those 'people' ( i use the term loosely.. for 'people' comes with some aura of right to suck air) are normally just jealous lil chits that have no prospects, didn't bother to get an education, never served and couldn't because they can't pass a piss test or a math test.

[Choocha]

Hangtime,


This is a UNION issue.  Between the haves and the have not's....between the regionals and heavy's.


Don't make this personal.  


UNION's try to protect thier GRAVY TRAINS.  However, in a free market, the laws of economics will catch up.  Unless, of course, government intervenes (see FRANCE or Bush with steel tariffs) but in the end, you cannot hide forever (again see FRANCE).

[Holden McGroin]

Originally posted by Toad
Holden, would things have been better at Eastern if the Mechs had not struck?

It certainly didn't help...  anyone...

[john9001]

after years of flying USAir i changed to southwest, nice new planes, friendly people, good service, CHEAP SEATS.

$49 tampa to pittsburgh one way, how do they do it? maybe they how to run a airline.

i saw a interview with jetblue's founder, the reporter said "your business plan is very similar to southwest's"

he replied" it's not just similar, it's exactly the same , we copied it"

the "legacy" airlines will change or go out of business.

the "hub and spoke" system works great when your shipping boxes, it doesnt work with people.

[Choocha]

Exactly

[Rolex]

Everyone pretty much pays market rate, Toad. This may be more about changing that market rate? Stark is a retired USMC aviator who earns his living now managing Delta employees 401k's, right? He is a personal asset advisor and not a financial analyst. Big difference. Sorry if my comment seemed negative (if he is a friend), but it is obvious he doesn't have any experience in private industry, corporate finance or corporate 'mindset.'

As I've said before to you, I don't presume to know enough about the technical aspects of the industry to preach anything. We've both been part of these types of negotiations in the past, on opposite sides of the table, so we could probably counter punch all day... but let's not.

Taking the traditional tack about pilot responsibility wouldn't carry much weight in arbitration. The analogy to management compensation would be dismissed in the arbitrators' mind and would likely leave a lingering negative image. Not a good strategy, and here's why:

Pilot qualifications are blessed by the FAA, thus the company needs not even respond to such a claim. Silence wins big since the argument is flawed in that the pilot is not a full-time steward of the asset, has no fiduciary responsibility, makes no hiring decisions, does not have P&L responsibilty or manage the financing, marketing or maintenance of the asset.

The pilots are the skilled operator specialists of the asset.

Now, that is not to say that they are not professionals deserving of respect. All employees are deserving of equal respect for their contribution.

I will defer, as always, to your logbook and experience, but even us non-ATP rated guys understand that self reservation trickles down to enhance the safety of passengers and the asset. If we are safe, the passengers will be also.

I saw something the other day that the ranking member of the Congressional Commerce sub-committe during the deregulation period recently said that if the members could have seen what the industry looks like today, they would never had voted for deregulation.

[Hangtime]

Originally posted by Choocha

Between the haves and the have not's....

 

Yup. For you.. a 'I have not the skill, education or training or experience to do this job, or I'd be on the gravy train too' and the guys that have the skills and have been doing the job. This is actually between those that have put the time in, earned their retirement pay, signed contracts with the job provider and expect the folks that signed those deals to stick to the contract. These ain't plumbers, they ain't screw installers.. they are pilots entrusted with the passenger lives, the airlines reputation and most expensive technologicaly sophisticated pieces of equipment in play in todays economy.

Being a professional commerical airline pilot is not about being on a 'gravy train'.. and reducing it to a union catcall is neither appropriate to the issue or fair to the pilots. I don't see delta's administrators, stewards and mechanics sucking up a 25% pay cut to save their ****ing company.. do you?

Finally.. when I walk up to one of those monsters on the runway, I don't think I'd be too charmed to consider the operator a scab that's sitting in that cockpit because he's got bare minimum skills and willing to work for peanuts. 'cheapest bidder' mentality only plays when it's somebody else's bellybutton in the firing line.. right?

But hey... that's just me.

[john9001]

""they are pilots entrusted with the passenger lives,"" you do realize that the pilot is on the same plane as the passengers? i think it's in the pilots self interest that he fly and land safely.


back on topic, i saw a break out of the income and cost of airlines per pass seat/miles.

the legacy airlines had twice the income per seat as southwest or jetblue but their costs were 4times the costs of SW or JB.

so with twice the income per seat they are still losing money, they have to cut costs or go the way of the dinosaurs.

[Holden McGroin]

It doesn't matter the training or experience you have, you're gonna have no luck milking a dry cow.

[Arlo]

Originally posted by Hangtime
I don't see delta's administrators, stewards and mechanics sucking up a 25% pay cut to save their ****ing company.. do you?
 

Yes ... I do. Be careful making claims you know nothing about.