Author Topic: Delta Strike  (Read 1331 times)

Offline SFRT - Frenchy

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« Reply #30 on: April 05, 2006, 06:10:08 PM »
Dat jugs bro.

Terror flieger since 1941.
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Offline LePaul

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« Reply #31 on: April 05, 2006, 06:40:00 PM »
:rofl

Offline Toad

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« Reply #32 on: April 05, 2006, 07:07:35 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Holden McGroin
It certainly didn't help...  anyone...


It wouldn't have made the least bit of difference either way.
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Offline Toad

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« Reply #33 on: April 05, 2006, 07:10:16 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by john9001
the "hub and spoke" system works great when your shipping boxes, it doesnt work with people.


The hub and spoke system was EXCELLENT for carrying passengers when only one airline was doing it and everyone else was laughing at them for doing so.

That's when we made extreme profits.

When the others in the "Big Five" woke up and started doing it, the huge advantages of hub and spoke were pretty much negated.

Think pendulum. It won't be long before "hub and spoke" is castigated as the ruination of the industry and everyone will be point-to-point again. Which will leave an opening for one carrier to start hubbing again.... and so on, and so on, and so on.
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Offline Toad

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« Reply #34 on: April 05, 2006, 07:23:04 PM »
Rolex,

How much are you paid?

I'm guessing as much as you can convince your employer(s) to pay you? I'm sure "market rate" figures into it a bit.

How is it any different? The pilots negotiated for as much as they could convince their employer to pay them;"market rate" was a primary factor. That they were successful isn't a reason to castigate them for trying. Should they have asked for far less then their peers at other airlines were already being paid?

Stark is managing up over a billion maybe two, IIRC. He must have some "analyst" ability to do that successfully, don't you think? He is successful.

Pilot responsibility ISN'T an arbitration factor. It's a fact of life. Look around  you in the economy. People that do things that get people killed get paid handsomely for their skills if they can do them without killing people. The pilots are indeed the skilled operator specialists of the asset. I think it's evident the skilled operator specialists of extremely expensive machines that can cause huge loss of life if mishandled get well paid in every part of society.

Quote
I saw something the other day that the ranking member of the Congressional Commerce sub-committe during the deregulation period recently said that if the members could have seen what the industry looks like today, they would never had voted for deregulation.


I'd say that guy gets the "DUH!" award.

Nonetheless, the industry will survive, will reinvent itself and will become profitable again. At least the airlines with intelligent management will do so. That means probably 50% casualties unless some intelligent managment can be found.

Think Southwest. IIRC, they've lost money in only one year of their existence. Ponder this: Their pilots get essentially the same pay as DAL pilots did before the cut. Fly the same equipment, actually get MORE days off per month BUT the company has managed to schedule so efficiently that SW pilots fly about 5-7 hours more per month than a DAL pilot.

This was pointed out by management in the 2001 negotiation. DAL work rules were compared to SW work rules and management wanted to "cherry pick" the SW contract for rules to put in our contract.

The union offered to accept the current SW contract in toto, not piecemeal.

Management lost interest.

Go figure.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2006, 08:22:23 PM by Toad »
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline Choocha

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« Reply #35 on: April 05, 2006, 08:48:14 PM »
I smell an analogy:


South West, Jet Blue = Toyota, Honda


Delta, US Airways = GM, Ford


The snake, once constricted around your neck, never gives up...........

Offline Rolex

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« Reply #36 on: April 06, 2006, 08:32:31 AM »
Rainman voice: "About $100."

I've had my resume out for a while, but nobody picked me up.

When I first started my business, there were times when I didn't pay myself anything, Toad. I had to pay employees, or pay off debt, or buy equipment or supplies, or pay taxes, or pay ex-wives...

Anyway, I've been an employer, not an employee, for 25 years. Not having a boss has it's good points, for sure. But, it also means that I've never had anyone I could complain to about my working conditions or pay. ;)

Naw, I don't blame them for trying. I have a friend working in Atlanta as a Honeywell contractor to Delta (after about 18 years outside the US for other airlines). I spent some time with him the last time I went through there and he told me some horror stories of mismanagement. One or both sides are being unreasonable if a strike happens.

Offline straffo

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« Reply #37 on: April 06, 2006, 09:30:40 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Choocha
UNION's try to protect thier GRAVY TRAINS.  However, in a free market, the laws of economics will catch up.  Unless, of course, government intervenes (see FRANCE or Bush with steel tariffs) but in the end, you cannot hide forever (again see FRANCE).


Obviously you don't have a clue , you canno't compare US unions to French unions.
They simply don't work the same way.

Offline z0rch

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« Reply #38 on: April 06, 2006, 10:29:34 AM »
I can't help but note that the topic of this thread, "Delta Strike" would make a great title for a Chuck Norris movie.

Offline Choocha

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« Reply #39 on: April 06, 2006, 11:02:21 AM »
straffo,


semantics

Offline straffo

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« Reply #40 on: April 06, 2006, 03:08:50 PM »
hu ?

Offline Toad

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« Reply #41 on: April 06, 2006, 07:32:29 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Rolex
Naw, I don't blame them for trying...  One or both sides are being unreasonable if a strike happens.


Bingo.

EVERYBODY tries to maximize income.

They aren't that far apart. It'll be monumental stupidity on both sides if they don't reach an agreement.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline Toad

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« Reply #42 on: April 06, 2006, 07:35:54 PM »
The snake, once constricted around your head, has made your condition permanent.

Ponder this: Southwest - basically a profit every single year save one.

Delta - Ups and Downs with good years and bad. The Pilots offered to accept the SW contract verbatim; management turned down the offer.

If it's the PILOT CONTRACT that makes the difference.... why didn't they take the SW contract?

Could it possibly be poor management that makes them unable to compete with SW?

I generally don't argue with a fence post, so... adios.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline Holden McGroin

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« Reply #43 on: April 07, 2006, 12:09:54 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Toad
Could it possibly be poor management that makes them unable to compete with SW?


Poor management?  Okay I guess you could call it that, but legacy carriers have inherited a poor business plan and changing from that plan to the new plan is going to cause some pain.

SW only flies 737's, last I checked.  All flight crews can fly any equipment, all maintenance crews can work on all equipment, supply chain for spare parts is streamlined.  Much less cost that a dozen different model a/c.

SW hedged on its fuel costs a few years ago,and spikes in fuel cost do not effect SW very much. (at least until the fuel contract is up)

If a strike is called, everyone involved will lose money.  If the status quo is maintained the airline will fold and everyone will lose money.
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Offline Choocha

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« Reply #44 on: April 07, 2006, 09:08:50 AM »
It funny how Frog is quick to blame management.  Typical Union slappy...doesn't matter if your flying an airplane or clean the **** off the bathroom floor.  They are all the same...