Author Topic: The European Union  (Read 908 times)

Offline Nilsen

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The European Union
« Reply #30 on: April 10, 2006, 02:23:43 AM »
lol Rolex :D

Offline leitwolf

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« Reply #31 on: April 10, 2006, 02:40:20 AM »
We'll see.
The question whether the EU transforms itself into one nation or not is not decided yet.
In the past ~50 years it has come a long way from warring nations to a union of countries which share a common currency and freedom of travel. Still, having no borders do not a nation make and the true hurdles are the differences in laws, languages and most importantly the notion of a 'national interest' by which every member state can block the entire union. And as long as the member state view their 'nation' as something different from the 'union' the integration will fail. However, it will not fail in the mentioned 6-7 years because thats too quick for 'Old Europe'.

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Or the EU will be challenged militarily. And because (as we have already covered) the EU has no military power, they will fall apart within days.

This is the only scenario which, in fact will be a deciding factor in favour of a unified Europe. If there should emerge a threat which can only be contained by the combined contribution of every member state, this will be the day a nation is born.
veni, vidi, vulchi.

Offline MANDO

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« Reply #32 on: April 10, 2006, 03:46:17 AM »
While Europe would be able to be the first economical/social/culture power, it won't be. Inmigration will crush us in few years. A recent study showed some disturbing news. 80% of current inmigration taxes does not even get close to cover half of the cost of social services they got in Europe for all their lives. What we thought would be the "fix" for the eagerly european population is goint to become an economical poison without antidote in less than 20 years more.

Offline Momus--

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« Reply #33 on: April 10, 2006, 04:01:12 AM »
The EU was founded in the ashes of WW2 with the aim of for all time preventing another conflict between France and Germany. It should stand as a tribute to the sacrifices of the allies, and to that end it is strange that certain neo-con poster-children who love to do it down do so by harping on the contibution of the US contingent in WW2. I'm sure your grandfathers would be proud. ;)

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Originally posted by Gunslinger
I will not tout my views from a vast educated standpoint as I've never been to europe and I'm only quoting what I've read.


You've read being lots of editorials from the Weekly Standard and Worldnetdaily based on past form, correct? Your tacit admission that you know next to nothing about the subject in hand does not bode well for your subsequent posts. Why are you even post if you're so uninformed?

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"Market Power", as you can see worldwide, is the strongest with those countries that have the strongest militaries. I'll let you decide whether or not this is a coincidence.


You're just making this stuff up as usual. Japan for example has the second biggest economy on the world and very little military power-projection capability.

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"Political Power" can only be used when the promise of military power is behind it. How can we tell the middle east what to do if there is no promise of extreme retribution upon failure?


You're telling the middle east what to do? Since when? You can't control Iraq, Iran is thumbing its nose at you and colluding with Russia and China behind your back, and you're forced ignore the real sponsors of Islamic extremism in Saudi Arabia since they can close the oil spigot on you any time they want. Egypt does your bidding because you bribe them, not in reaction to any perceived "prestige".

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Any country of decent size will fall apart without a decently strong central government.


The EU isn't a country, it's an economic union based on free-market principals. That it doesn't have any strong central authority is actually one of it's strengths, since it is then forced to make decisions based on unanimity and mutual benefit, and isn't easily hijacked by special interests like some other democracies we could name.

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Mark my word. The EU will fail in one of two ways. Over a span of about 6-7 years they will bicker with eachother so much that they will break the bonds that "Unite" them.


That's interesting, because the founding treaty of the EU was promulgated in 1957, so it has lasted nearly 50 years already. 6-7 years? Engage brain before posting please.

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Or the EU will be challenged militarily. And because (as we have already covered) the EU has no military power, they will fall apart within days


WhY would anyone agress against the EU? The US and Asia both need access to the combined markets there; both have massive investments there that would be risked. That said, some of the EU constituent states have more than enough nuclear capability to deter an attack by anyone, yourselves included. I think decades of bullying third world nations has made you over-confident.

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Who said anything about defense? I said challenge them militarily. Sometime soon, the EU will venture out with all of it's military and engage someone. That same day the entire world will realize the lack of power the EU has and all EU stocks will drop like a rock.


You're just making this stuff up; it's great. EU stocks are underwritten by perception of potential military force? Brilliant!

Offline wipass

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« Reply #34 on: April 10, 2006, 06:02:09 AM »
Militarily the EU doesn't need hundreds of thousands of ground troops, we are not planning on invading anyone you see. However, Europe has enough weapons that not even the might of the largest or only superpower could invade Europe.

Factor in that the Euro will eventually be the currency that Oil is purchased with and you will see that the future is in fact quite rosy this side of the Atlantic.

wipass

Offline Goth

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« Reply #35 on: April 10, 2006, 06:12:53 AM »
Thread started out with civility, then it looks like some people had to come in and stomp on things. Saitaw, Nilsen and Rolex, why don't you contribute some informed intelligence on the thread instead of acting like the proud eurotards. You guys wonder why people on this board slam the euros?

Offline MrRiplEy[H]

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« Reply #36 on: April 10, 2006, 06:19:16 AM »
Tell me, how many of you guys work 2 or 3 jobs?
Definiteness of purpose is the starting point of all achievement. –W. Clement Stone

Offline Nilsen

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« Reply #37 on: April 10, 2006, 06:22:46 AM »
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Originally posted by Goth
Thread started out with civility, then it looks like some people had to come in and stomp on things. Saitaw, Nilsen and Rolex, why don't you contribute some informed intelligence on the thread instead of acting like the proud eurotards. You guys wonder why people on this board slam the euros?


lol.. cranky today?

Offline Tarmac

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« Reply #38 on: April 10, 2006, 07:00:48 AM »
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Originally posted by Goth
Thread started out with civility, then it looks like some people had to come in and stomp on things. Saitaw, Nilsen and Rolex, why don't you contribute some informed intelligence on the thread


Rofl, I was thinking the same thing but it wasn't about those three by a long shot.  

And Rolex, by "12 handicappers," do you mean golfers with a score handicap of 12, or simply a dozen retards?  I'm trying to figure out which is funnier (and more applicable to this thread).   :D

Offline Goth

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« Reply #39 on: April 10, 2006, 07:12:17 AM »
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Originally posted by Nilsen
lol.. cranky today?


Yeah....sorry...hehe.

Finally got some food in my belly!

Offline Nilsen

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« Reply #40 on: April 10, 2006, 07:17:32 AM »
that usually helps

lack of sex and/or food does that to you

Offline DREDIOCK

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« Reply #41 on: April 10, 2006, 07:55:45 AM »
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Originally posted by Urchin
That ones easy... they don't.  Spains is the highest, and it is under 20%.

Also... Europeans offer workers unemployment longer, so it isn't like it is a huge deal.  

France, Germany, and the UK are all under 10%.  Italy was ~12% in the graph I saw.


The only problem with unemployment is. Thew longer its available. the longer people will delay getting a job and getting off unemployment.
Death is no easy answer
For those who wish to know
Ask those who have been before you
What fate the future holds
It ain't pretty

Offline Nilsen

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« Reply #42 on: April 10, 2006, 08:01:55 AM »
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Originally posted by DREDIOCK
The only problem with unemployment is. Thew longer its available. the longer people will delay getting a job and getting off unemployment.


There will always be a few that abuse the system, but they are very few up here atleast.

Offline MANDO

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« Reply #43 on: April 10, 2006, 08:14:22 AM »
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Originally posted by Urchin
That ones easy... they don't.  Spains is the highest, and it is under 20%.


:O

End of 2005 was 8.5% with a substained economic growth of 3.3%.

Stop scaring me :p

Offline Urchin

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« Reply #44 on: April 10, 2006, 08:15:33 AM »
Guess my graph was a couple years out of date lol.  It showed Spain at around 18%.

Glad to hear it isn't that bad.