Author Topic: Showa L2D (Read 2599 times)

Greebo · « **on:** April 12, 2006, 10:43:05 AM »

I've uploaded another C-47 skin to The Skin Department. This one is an IJNAF Showa L2D "Tabby", basically a license produced version of the Douglas aircraft.

I've had a lot of trouble finding any good information on this aircraft, just some poor quality photos in books and on the net. I've based this skin on the plastic kit photo below as it was the only source to show any markings, but there is nothing to say which squadron it is from, or where it was based.

Does anyone have anything better than the stuff below on the Showa? Preferably a photo or a good profile of a Showa with squadron markings shown.

Dux · « **Reply #1 on:** April 12, 2006, 04:18:46 PM »

Nice, Greebo.

Any word on whether this will be accepted for MA?

Greebo · « **Reply #2 on:** April 12, 2006, 06:09:19 PM »

Well Skuzzy accepted my Lisunov Li-2 for the MA and the 487 L2Ds built saw a lot of service, so I don't see the substitution itself being a problem. I'm more concerned about the lack of good information I've got on the skin.

RAIDER14 · « **Reply #3 on:** April 12, 2006, 06:24:27 PM »

looks awesome almost thought it was a deffrent plane , great job:aok

Raptor · « **Reply #4 on:** April 12, 2006, 07:31:15 PM »

Was just talking about this plane/skin in another thread. Hope it is accepted.

Citabria · « **Reply #5 on:** April 12, 2006, 10:10:32 PM »

fantastic greebo!

great skin choice for the goon.

if theres a black p38J with no historical accuracy and a AVG p40E with brit camo even though all AVG p40E's were olive drab theres no reason to not accept an addequately researched obscure yet very useful aircraft that would be fantastic and well recieved by IJA/IJN fans and great for scenarios.

also that pic is not of a plastic model its of a 3d model made by an outstanding 3d artist that is well known for historical and technical accuracy so if thats how he painted his IJA L2D id say its good enough

Bruno · « **Reply #6 on:** April 12, 2006, 10:28:32 PM »

Quote

if theres a black p38J with no historical accuracy and a AVG p40E with brit camo even though all AVG p40E's were olive drab theres no reason to not accept an addequately researched obscure yet very useful aircraft that would be fantastic and well recieved by IJA/IJN fans and great for scenarios.

There's plenty of screwed up LW planes as well. For example all the 109F-4 skins in AH are F-2s. Despite the F, the F-2 and F-2 aren't the same and imho not even close enough to pretend they are.

I remember way back when HTC announced the skins. Pyro said they wouldn't except odd ball skins (like the pink polka-dotted B-24 etc..) However, he also said he was looking forward to Li-2 and Tabby skins for the DC-3. If you want I can quote those posts. Unfortunately, Skuzzy (or whoever) relies on the information the skinner supplies, so if the skinner is wrong or he uses a historically incorrect, or questionable, or out of date sources he can squeeze his work into the game.

FYI, that Tabby looks great..!

Greebo · « **Reply #7 on:** April 13, 2006, 02:21:54 PM »

Thanks for the kind words guys. I'm going to tinker with this one a bit more than submit it. Think I'll do a USN one next, with the dark blue, mid blue and white scheme.

Skuzzy · « **Reply #8 on:** April 13, 2006, 02:27:52 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Bruno
Unfortunately, Skuzzy (or whoever) relies on the information the skinner supplies, so if the skinner is wrong or he uses a historically incorrect, or questionable, or out of date sources he can squeeze his work into the game.

FYI: Pyro uses the supplied information to expedite looking it up and verifying the skin. And we will accept skins close to the same model when we have no intention of doing said model. We take it on a case by case basis.

Next time, it would be appreciated if you asked before making assumptions like you did in this post. We spend a lot of time on skins and I really take it quite personally when accusations like this are made.

The recent F4 error was just that. An error. It can happen. As of today, that skin no longer is available.

We are more relaxed when it comes to older skins, as we know when they are done, all the skins get flushed and then we tighten up the standards. This has been this way for some time, and we have mode no secret about it.

And there is nothing stopping anyone from challenging the validity of a skin. You think it wrong and do not say anything to us, then you really have no room to come in here and complain or accuse about a skin.

MachNix · « **Reply #9 on:** April 13, 2006, 03:40:37 PM »

Greebo,

I know you are doing some more "tinkering" with the skin so take a look at the yellow leading edges. They extend too far outboard when compared to the book cover and your screen shot. Notice where the yellow stops in relation to the "meatball" on the wing.

Good looking skin and will be a great addition to the set. Thanks for doing it.

Bruno · « **Reply #10 on:** April 13, 2006, 04:03:56 PM »

Quote

FYI: Pyro uses the supplied information to expedite looking it up and verifying the skin. And we will accept skins close to the same model when we have no intention of doing said model. We take it on a case by case basis.

Well if the skinner says 'I found the information in XXX' then Pyro checks 'XXX' and it shows the same info then the skin gets in, right? What happens if 'XXX' is wrong or out of date? No one expects you or Pyro to be the geeks some of us are.

I think the responsibility is on the guy doing the skin to properly research it. That was my point.

In fact I recently discovered that my 109G-14 Blue 2 skin is incorrect. I have a blue gruppe marking. I recently aquired a new book which shows the gruppe marking in better light. While the aircraft numeral was 'Blue 2' the gruppe marking should be white. I have made a correction and will send it in shortly.

I would never have expected HTC to discover this based on the sources I listed.

Quote

We spend a lot of time on skins and I really take it quite personally when accusations like this are made.

I am sure you do, it's a lot of work. I have suggested in the past a peer review panel of hand picked players to pre-screen skins to lighten your work load. They would not have the ability to dis-allow a skin into the game. They would just review the skin and the research make notes and send them on to you.

I didn't make an 'accussation' just an observation.

Quote

The recent F4 error was just that. An error. It can happen. As of today, that skin no longer is available.

The F-4s I am referring to are 109F-4s. All of the current skins for the 109F-4 in AH are infact 109F-2s.

Quote

And there is nothing stopping anyone from challenging the validity of a skin. You think it wrong and do not say anything to us, then you really have no room to come in here and complain or accuse about a skin.

I am not going to start complaining about what other guys are doing, that just leads to inevitable conflicts and flames. I have brought up to some of the folks about their 109Fs being F-2 and the replies I got were 'they were accepted before'.

They don't look bad, they just aren't accurate.

Despite what you read into my post it wasn't intended to 'beat up on anyone' (at HTC or skinners).

Anyway, Tabby still looks great...

Skuzzy · « **Reply #11 on:** April 13, 2006, 04:31:10 PM »

The F4 I was referring to was the F4U-4 which got in and was not a WW2 skin. Sorry for being too brief.

As far as accuracy goes, there will always be an issue with one book saying one thing and another saying something else. Sometimes, it is simply a best guess, as none of us were actually there.

Verification will always be problematic.

FYI: We do not neccessarily use the same source as the skinner for verification.

Krusty · « **Reply #12 on:** April 13, 2006, 05:17:32 PM »

Skuzzy, am I correct in guessing that including actual war-time photos of the plane in question helps speed things up? I've tried to do that as often as I could, and was wondering if it helped or if you just need the name/info/time (etc) to look it up on your own?

Skuzzy · « **Reply #13 on:** April 13, 2006, 05:24:46 PM »

War time photos are always a big help.

Guppy35 · « **Reply #14 on:** April 13, 2006, 11:24:07 PM »

Is there any way we can help the cause Skuzzy?