ATF abuse their power..... again.

[SOB]

You may love living with terrorists GTO but some of us know better-If he had nothing to hide he shouldnt be covering up his face- I suppose you think it's OK to be walking the streets after dark too! WAKE UP PEOPLE THE TERRORISTS ARE OUT THERE AND THEY LIKE WEARING CLOTH ON THEIR HEADS SO THIS IS A TOTALLY SMART ACTION BY THE POLICE!!!!!!1

[Cynic]

Originally posted by GtoRA2
Oh so that’s why you got all insulting?

I got insulting because of your embellishments from a totally emotional and irrational POV insisting we dismantle an entire section of law enforcement. However, on your side, I have difficulty in understanding why there has to be a DEA and ATF in the first place and not just branches of the federal marshal. Or, do you want them dismantled too?

Maybe in the future if you have questions you can ask them, like an adult.

And perhaps next time you can leave off the gushing with liberal pride embellishments and report the facts, like an adult.

Besides, I'm just planting the seeds of hate. I want plenty of viable targets when I sign back in.  No affiliations, no biases, no quarter.

[Cynic]

Originally posted by SOB
You may love living with terrorists GTO but some of us know better-If he had nothing to hide he shouldnt be covering up his face- I suppose you think it's OK to be walking the streets after dark too! WAKE UP PEOPLE THE TERRORISTS ARE OUT THERE AND THEY LIKE WEARING CLOTH ON THEIR HEADS SO THIS IS A TOTALLY SMART ACTION BY THE POLICE!!!!!!1

Not true, not true. People throw costum parties all the time, throughout the year.  Totally smart? Questionable, but I wouldn't want to be the cop that decided to play the good old boy town sheriff and paid with his life.

[lasersailor184]

Cynic, I want you to reread the title.  There is a key word there that describes everything you have gripes with.

You have 5 words to pick from, I'll give you 3 guesses as to the Key Word.

[Elfie]

Is that proof they're corrupt and abusive as a whole?

Of course not

It is however consitent with other incidents by both the ATF and the DEA.

Besides, I'm just planting the seeds of hate. I want plenty of viable targets when I sign back in.

A good portion of the folks that post in the O'Club either play very sparingly or not at all. So ya might want to start bagging all those *seeds of hate* and save them for Channel 200 in the game.

[Cynic]

Originally posted by lasersailor184
Cynic, I want you to reread the title.  There is a key word there that describes everything you have gripes with.

You have 5 words to pick from, I'll give you 3 guesses as to the Key Word.

LOL!!! Yeah, not entirely power, but I am very much an anti-authoritarian. I have yet to find someone I want leading me.

[Cynic]

Originally posted by Elfie

A good portion of the folks that post in the O'Club either play very sparingly or not at all. So ya might want to start bagging all those *seeds of hate* and save them for Channel 200 in the game. [/B]

No!!! Come on, I've been throwing out good stuff.  Hmmmph! I guess I'll go back to JPfitness and Men's Health until the new puter comes.  I don't expect to compete against them, though there are some there that I cut into semi-regularly (but the whole board does too).

[GtoRA2]

Originally posted by Cynic
I got insulting because of your embellishments from a totally emotional and irrational POV insisting we dismantle an entire section of law enforcement. However, on your side, I have difficulty in understanding why there has to be a DEA and ATF in the first place and not just branches of the federal marshal. Or, do you want them dismantled too?



And perhaps next time you can leave off the gushing with liberal pride embellishments and report the facts, like an adult.

Besides, I'm just planting the seeds of hate. I want plenty of viable targets when I sign back in.  No affiliations, no biases, no quarter.

So you admit that you can't act like an adult when you see something you don't like or understand. That is a start I guess. You really should think about taking personal responsibility when you do something wrong instead of blaming it on someone else.


The story does not need any further links, nor do I have to justify what is clearly my opinion to you or anyone else.

If you think a kid being held down by his neck by feds knee for wearing a bandana on his a university campus is not having ones rights crushed, I have to wonder what you would think is.

You have me chucking over the “gushing with liberal pride embellishments”.   I would be surprised if you could find a single person who would refer to me as a liberal. Maybe you should try reading the forums and getting a feel for the people on the board before you go around and label them.

But whatever, make excuses for why you acted how you did and blame others for your actions all you want.

Some people around here will still take you seriously in spite of it, at least until you get banned for not being able to control your urge to be the champion of the board defending us from extremists in both Politics and Religion by…   insulting them.

Thank you ever so much.

[Sandman]

Story aside, why does the ATF exist?

I'm either ignorant of their true benefit or they are redundant.

One would think that the party that supposedly wants smaller government, you know... the one that controls the White House and the Congress... those people might take steps to eliminate such an obvious waste of governmental resources.

But hey... maybe it's just me.

[DiabloTX]

From the wiki:

The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) is a Federal law enforcement agency within the United States Department of Justice. Its responsibilities include enforcing certain Federal laws, administering certain Federal crime prevention programs, protecting the public and reducing violent crime.

The ATF enforces Federal laws and regulations relating to alcohol, tobacco products, firearms, explosives, and arson.

Two incidents in the early 1990s brought criticism to the agency, as well as to the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) and U.S. Marshals (USM) - the Branch Davidian raid in Waco, Texas, and the incident at Ruby Ridge. U.S. Attorney General Janet Reno under the direction of President Bill Clinton ordered the raid of the Branch Davidian complex and the incident at Ruby Ridge.

On November 25, 2002, the Homeland Security Act of 2002 split the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms into two different parts.

The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms was renamed the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives and was moved into the Justice Department from the Treasury Department and is responsible for the law enforcement effort. It remains known officially by the acronym "ATF."
The Alcohol and Tobacco Tax and Trade Bureau (TTB) remained within the Treasury Department and continues to operate most of the tax collection side.
The changes took effect January 24, 2003.

ATF was originally formed from within the Internal Revenue Service (IRS) in 1973, though its history can be traced back to the time of the "Revenuers" and the Bureau of Prohibition. This is a name retained by the agency until the repeal of the Volstead Act in 1933. Special Agent Eliot Ness and his band of "Untouchables" were real-life members of ATF's predecessor organization. Often refered to as "treasury agents" then ATF agents.

[GtoRA2]

Originally posted by Sandman
Story aside, why does the ATF exist?

I'm either ignorant of their true benefit or they are redundant.

One would think that the party that supposedly wants smaller government, you know... the one that controls the White House and the Congress... those people might take steps to eliminate such an obvious waste of governmental resources.

But hey... maybe it's just me.

ATF History link.

Interesting reading, and it does not convince me we need them.

[Cynic]

Originally posted by GtoRA2
The story does not need any further links, nor do I have to justify what is clearly my opinion to you or anyone else.

I think it does. Well documented gives a clearer argument.  Arguments from the gut don't work well.

If you think a kid being held down by his neck by feds knee for wearing a bandana on his a university campus is not having ones rights crushed, I have to wonder what you would think is.

Let's see, he's running around, masked (not bandanaed, fully masked), covered in black, looking suspicious, acting suspicious.  Would I not have a gun ready in case he had one?  Oh, I would.  I'm not betting my life on the possibility he's just playing.  The knee on the neck? It's a restraint measure.  It sucks, but it's a good thing he didn't have a toy gun that looked real. He'd be dead.  Would you consider the cops shooting someone for leveling a toy gun at them criminally negligent?  How about a real gun? In a second, an LEA (law enforcement agent) could be dead from the hesitation.

Would you approach someone looking like that, acting like that and ask them WTF?  It's hard to say, but I also don't know anyone who's been shot surprising an armed assialant. My opinion would probably change if I did, or worked in a profession where the story goes about the LEA  that didn't think any of it, lost his life.

Some people around here will still take you seriously in spite of it, at least until you get banned for not being able to control your urge to be the champion of the board defending us from extremists in both Politics and Religion by…   insulting them.

You jump on the word crushed, saying his rights were violated. Pretty strong words.  When you use words that strong, you need to make sure your argument is well documented, because a sloppy argument is easily shot down.

[Cynic]

Originally posted by GtoRA2
ATF History link.

Interesting reading, and it does not convince me we need them.

interesing read. I thought they were brought up for the 20s.

Tax collection...hmmm...I don't think the Treasury needs them anymore.  

Did the U.S. marshal come later?

[DiabloTX]

Basically what it boils down to is the kid(s) made a couple of bad decisions. (A. Having a costume party in broad daylight at a university campus and B. Apparently not informing the right authorities before it was scheduled.)  

The kid in question paid the price for the lack of action on those who organised the event.  Lesson learned.  Next...

[lasersailor184]

Originally posted by Cynic
LOL!!! Yeah, not entirely power, but I am very much an anti-authoritarian. I have yet to find someone I want leading me.

Silly little man.


The key word was "Again."  I was just playing that there really was a choice as to which one was the key word.


The problem is not that the ATF or the DEA overstepped their bounds.  Every agency somewhere along the way has made a bad decision and done something they regret.


The problem is that the ATF and the DEA continuously overstep their bounds and regret nothing about it.  The question is not when will they do it again.  The question is how big of a **** up will the next one be?