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Author Topic: New 45ACP handgun for the US military.  (Read 1460 times)

Offline lazs2

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New 45ACP handgun for the US military.
« Reply #15 on: April 16, 2006, 12:15:57 PM »
I agree mav.

lazs
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Offline Hangtime

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New 45ACP handgun for the US military.
« Reply #16 on: April 16, 2006, 12:25:36 PM »
yup.

Got my Garand finished.. done up as USN issue, 1968 in 7.62x51 NATO. (.308) I love it. If I can see it, I can hit it. Shoots as well on open sights as most of my scoped rifles. I like it more than my FAL.. which is a really sweet weapon. Only thing an M-14 has on it is a bottom feed mag.. and yah know what? I don't miss it a bit; I find the 8 round clips load really quick, and the lower profile of the rifle makes it easy to get behind it in a small spot. Certainly a heluva rifle... an amazing weapon.

But yeah.. a new battle rifle in .308 would save lives and fits much better a doctrine of marksmanship and out ranging the enemies 7.62x39 carbines. It'll also shoot through most battlefield cover. Range, punch, penetration. A .308 has it all over a .223 M-16

Might I suggest the AR-10?  

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Offline lazs2

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New 45ACP handgun for the US military.
« Reply #17 on: April 16, 2006, 12:34:37 PM »
hang.... told ya the garand was sweet..   I am not a fan of the whole AR series of rifles... great for at the range where they don't have to function well..   lousy in war.   They crap where they eat and that is the problem.

The reason for the garand being so accurate for a semi auto is that it takes it's gas from a point so far forward..... the bullet is not affected.  It also has a very stout reciever and bolt.

loading is as you say.... fast... you don't have to dump any mags...  the clips eject themselves... just jam another one in.  

lazs
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Offline Dago

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« Reply #18 on: April 16, 2006, 12:49:56 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
hang.... told ya the garand was sweet..   I am not a fan of the whole AR series of rifles... great for at the range where they don't have to function well..   lousy in war.   They crap where they eat and that is the problem.

The reason for the garand being so accurate for a semi auto is that it takes it's gas from a point so far forward..... the bullet is not affected.  It also has a very stout reciever and bolt.

loading is as you say.... fast... you don't have to dump any mags...  the clips eject themselves... just jam another one in.  

lazs


Loading a Garand may be fast, but if in a sustained firefight, two reloads of the M14 would probably be quicker than five reloads of the Garand, and the two versus five relaods would give 40 rounds to fire for each.  Not to mention that the M14 would also have a far greater reduced time with an empty rifle during reload and leaving you defenseless.

The Garand is a great weapon.  The M14 is just an improved version.
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Offline Pooh21

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« Reply #19 on: April 16, 2006, 12:57:29 PM »
plus the m14 doesnt have the "Shoot me I am reloading feature"
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Offline Holden McGroin

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« Reply #20 on: April 16, 2006, 01:00:07 PM »
Instead of all these new guns, can't we just negotiate to peace and understanding?
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Offline moot

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New 45ACP handgun for the US military.
« Reply #21 on: April 16, 2006, 01:11:20 PM »
It'd just mean more free time to go shooting.
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Offline Dago

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« Reply #22 on: April 16, 2006, 02:31:09 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Holden McGroin
Instead of all these new guns, can't we just negotiate to peace and understanding?


Peace through superior firepower.  :D
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Offline lasersailor184

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« Reply #23 on: April 16, 2006, 06:02:00 PM »
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Might I suggest the AR-10?


No.  I will tell you we'll use the M14.  One of those tried and proven guns.
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Offline Hangtime

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« Reply #24 on: April 16, 2006, 07:07:11 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Dago
Loading a Garand may be fast, but if in a sustained firefight, two reloads of the M14 would probably be quicker than five reloads of the Garand, and the two versus five relaods would give 40 rounds to fire for each.  Not to mention that the M14 would also have a far greater reduced time with an empty rifle during reload and leaving you defenseless.

The Garand is a great weapon.  The M14 is just an improved version.


I have a *ahem* 'passing' familiarity with the M-14. ...and absolutely; your correct, it has a distinct ROF advantage. However.. I have a passion and prejudice for old military bolt rifles; and a garand is a bolt lovers wet dream come true. Since I rarely need more than one shot on what I want to shoot at, I'm willing to sacrafice ROF for the balance, ease of slinging; low profile, uncannily accurate garand.

Ohhh rah! *squirt*
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Offline lasersailor184

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« Reply #25 on: April 16, 2006, 07:18:18 PM »
Quote
plus the m14 doesnt have the "Shoot me I am reloading feature"


Fallacy.  The sound it makes isn't as bad as some people would have you believe.  It isn't much louder then changing any other magazine, plus reloading is much quicker.


It can also work to your advantage, it's easily replicated.  Many soldiers in Korea would pinch the two halves together, and then pop it into the air.  *PING* and you still have a full mag in your gun.
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Offline Hangtime

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« Reply #26 on: April 16, 2006, 07:19:05 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
hang.... told ya the garand was sweet..   I am not a fan of the whole AR series of rifles... great for at the range where they don't have to function well..   lousy in war.   They crap where they eat and that is the problem.

The reason for the garand being so accurate for a semi auto is that it takes it's gas from a point so far forward..... the bullet is not affected.  It also has a very stout reciever and bolt.

loading is as you say.... fast... you don't have to dump any mags...  the clips eject themselves... just jam another one in.  

lazs


oh, hell yes! john garand was a freakin genius.. plain and simple. The clip pops up and back, lands to the right of your feet... the brass 5 feet forward, two feet to the right.  And, like you say, just snap the next clip down, the bolt flies into battery. No tugging on the carging handle. Lil details.. the rifle is a freaking amazing piece of engineering.

IMHO, in aimed fire shooting an m-14 has zero advantage on a garand. Shooting offhand, I'm much better with the garand than an m-14... better hold, balance, feels better in the pocket.. but that's just subjective cause I like bolties. ;)
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Offline GlacierGirl

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New 45ACP handgun for the US military.
« Reply #27 on: April 16, 2006, 07:20:14 PM »
hate to burst your bubble guys but the military already has a 45 its called Socom .45 or MkII its the pistol of the navy seals.

http://www.hkpro.com/socomcan.jpg

Oh yes and they are already looking at a new rifle too, the G36 by HK as well

http://www.airsoftguns.cz/img/article/g36c_m/12.jpg
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Offline Hangtime

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« Reply #28 on: April 16, 2006, 07:21:56 PM »
the g-36 is a carbine. Big caliber.. but a carbine.
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Offline Dago

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« Reply #29 on: April 16, 2006, 08:54:38 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Hangtime
I have a *ahem* 'passing' familiarity with the M-14. ...and absolutely; your correct, it has a distinct ROF advantage. However.. I have a passion and prejudice for old military bolt rifles; and a garand is a bolt lovers wet dream come true. Since I rarely need more than one shot on what I want to shoot at, I'm willing to sacrafice ROF for the balance, ease of slinging; low profile, uncannily accurate garand.

Ohhh rah! *squirt*


While I have shot both Garand and I own an M1A, I don't consider myself an expert on either.  But, that being said, I do consider Elmer Balance one of, if not thee, expert on both.  I have had a few conversations with him, and during one he discussed the differance between Garand and M14.  He explained that the M14/M1A was a more accurate rifle out of the box.  His opinion was that the Garand needed some accurizing work to be equivalent to "out of the box" accuracy of the M14.  He gave me reasons for this, one that stuck in my mind was op rod harmonics in the Garand not noticable in the M14.  The Garand op rod is much longer than the M14.

If you haven't heard of Elmer Balance, do a google search, I am sure you will find him.  

dago
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