New Forum Option

[Skuzzy]

You can now post your images via attachments, which is only available in this forum (see the bottom of the screen when making a new post or a reply).

It is intended to help make it easier for skinners to post thier work.  It is not intended for general use.
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With that, we would like to have a discussion about skins and the process we put them through.

How would youo folks feel about a recommendation to put all skins to be submitted in this forum for critique before they are submitted to HTC?

And the info.txt file containing a link to the thread.

What this does for the skinner is to help move the skin through our process faster.  And it should help in keeping skins historically correct.  Of course, if a skinner does not post the skin before submission, it would get a lower priority from us.

Now that everyone can post an image of thier work, how do you feel about this idea?  Blame Bruno for it.

[Guppy35]

I'm for it.  Might catch a few things that slip through.

Can we use the attachment/image posting bit for helping the skinners?  I've filled up more picture hanger accounts then I care to admit posting images here

[Skuzzy]

Anything related to skins or skinning is appropriate.  We may change the sizes around, depends on how it goes.

The overall goal is to provide high quality skins which are as accurate as possible.

[Bullethead]

Skuzzy said:

You can now post your images via attachments, which is only available in this forum (see the bottom of the screen when making a new post or a reply).

Hmmm, it still says I can't post attachments, and I see no button for such a feature, even grayed-out.  Do I have to do something to make this option appear?

How would youo folks feel about a recommendation to put all skins to be submitted in this forum for critique before they are submitted to HTC?

And the info.txt file containing a link to the thread.

What this does for the skinner is to help move the skin through our process faster.  And it should help in keeping skins historically correct.  Of course, if a skinner does not post the skin before submission, it would get a lower priority from us.

While I think this idea has merit, I have some questions as to how this would work in practice.....

1.  How much exposure would a skin need in here before we can send it to you?  Would there be a set minimum time interval, or do there have to be a certain number of replies to the thread?

2.  Most discussions of skins in here typically end up as debates on artistic interpretation of various features, as opposed to the overall historical accuracy of the paintjob represented.  There are as many firmly held opinions of how rivets, panel lines, paint chips, and exhaust stains should look as there are skinners.  So are you going to lay down the law on how these should look?  Or will you force skinners to go with the consensus of comments, even if they think that's wrong?  Otherwise, we can make comments until the cows come home, but if the skinner thinks his work looks correct, he's not going to change anything.

3.  What happens if I send in a skin I've researched heavily, that's historical to the best of my knowledge and belief, but then weeks or months later somebody digs up another pic showing some significant differences between what I did and what the plane really looked like?  Like what recently happened with my worn-out semi-blue spit BR112 "X" from Malta.  Will we be required to fix that immediately, or when we get around to it, or at all?

And how about this for an addition to the system?

HTC creates a special email address ONLY for skin submissons.  This address would include an automatic reply feature that would immediately let us know that our submission arrived at HTC.  As it stands now, it might take weeks or months for us to learn that, and in the meantime we always wonder whether we need to send it again or not.  So that would be good for us.  And in the automatic reply, you could include some text that recommends going through the review process here before submitting, to get the word out to all those who don't use this forum .

[Skuzzy]

Hmmm, it shows for me.  It should be showing for everyone in this forum, for new posts, or replies.  It will not show for edited posts however.

Does the permission option at the bottom left say you cannot post attachments?

[Skuzzy]

Nevermind.  It should work now.

[Mustaine]

sounds like a great idea Skuzzy.

a step further, if you don't like this idea thats cool...

when multiple versions of a skin are submitted, a choice for the community to vote on the better of the 2. like say when someone makes a "better" version of a skin we already have or something.

[Skuzzy]

Originally posted by Bullethead
While I think this idea has merit, I have some questions as to how this would work in practice.....

1.  How much exposure would a skin need in here before we can send it to you?  Would there be a set minimum time interval, or do there have to be a certain number of replies to the thread?

I do not think we could, nor should, put a time to this.  Whenever the skinner feels it is ready is good enough.  If something needs to be changed after it has been submitted, then it can be done.

2.  Most discussions of skins in here typically end up as debates on artistic interpretation of various features, as opposed to the overall historical accuracy of the paintjob represented.  There are as many firmly held opinions of how rivets, panel lines, paint chips, and exhaust stains should look as there are skinners.  So are you going to lay down the law on how these should look?  Or will you force skinners to go with the consensus of comments, even if they think that's wrong?  Otherwise, we can make comments until the cows come home, but if the skinner thinks his work looks correct, he's not going to change anything.

No.  It is about making sure the skin is historical and accurate.  Art comments should be taken in the light they are given, which I hope is just suggestions on how one might improve the quality of the skin.[

3.  What happens if I send in a skin I've researched heavily, that's historical to the best of my knowledge and belief, but then weeks or months later somebody digs up another pic showing some significant differences between what I did and what the plane really looked like?  Like what recently happened with my worn-out semi-blue spit BR112 "X" from Malta.  Will we be required to fix that immediately, or when we get around to it, or at all?

The entire effort in here is voluntary.  I would like to see skins corrected if the skinner has found an error, but it is not something to be forced.  Skinning should be something people like to do, not work and we have no intention on making it work.
On the contrary, we are very appreciative for the effort put forth by the skinning community.  My hope is to help get the skins through the process a bit faster with fewer errors.

And how about this for an addition to the system?

HTC creates a special email address ONLY for skin submissons.  This address would include an automatic reply feature that would immediately let us know that our submission arrived at HTC.  As it stands now, it might take weeks or months for us to learn that, and in the meantime we always wonder whether we need to send it again or not.  So that would be good for us.  And in the automatic reply, you could include some text that recommends going through the review process here before submitting, to get the word out to all those who don't use this forum .

Well, that falls squarely on my shoulders.  A separate email address is not going to help.  The reason the delays happen goes to efficient use of time.  It is easier and faster to do a bundle of skins, than one at a time.
However, I really do not like (personally) to make any skinner wait.  I am trying to think of a way to automate the process more so it will make it easier to get things done.  Right now the steps to get the skin into the queue are quite long and tedious.  No fault to the skinners, it is just the way it is so we can track the information accurately.

[rogerdee]

i like this idea  epecialy  thce single email address   for the sending of skins,i know  from expericence  that  skins can get lost,and i think it going to one point  and with  areply sent  saying its  got here  it would be much better.

[Skuzzy]

Do you guys use email programs which allow you to set a return-receipt?  That will accomplish the acknowlegement for the time being.

[Krusty]

Return receipt: I disable that. Not my cup o' tea.

How would youo folks feel about a recommendation to put all skins to be submitted in this forum for critique before they are submitted to HTC?

And the info.txt file containing a link to the thread.

What this does for the skinner is to help move the skin through our process faster. And it should help in keeping skins historically correct. Of course, if a skinner does not post the skin before submission, it would get a lower priority from us.

Now that everyone can post an image of thier work, how do you feel about this idea? Blame Bruno for it.

In general, I think that most if not all skins ought to have some sort of post here. Some "I'm working on this" post, and if there are progress screenshots, that's even better.

However, I don't personally know if that will make the skins better, or what-have-you. I can see how it might help if the skinner is using a faulty source as the basis of the skin, posts about it, and is corrected, and either cancels the skin or corrects it and keeps going.

However, there are some skins that are just hard to find resources on. I did a Romanian (?? I think it was romanian! have to check) 109E-4 skin, but there was precious little resources -- by that I mean wartime photos, accounts, descriptions, whatever -- to be found to help me out. I was half-expecting the skin not to be accepted. I posted several times on the forums about the skin, about the country and how they named their squadrons (I didn't know how to write down the squadron!) but again nobody knew.

So my take is: Unless it's obviously incorrect, having a peer review is more like nit-picking than it is vetting. If a skinner gets more than one source, chances are that skinner will spot the mistakes. If there are no sources, then the skinner isn't going to benefit.

So I'm not concerned that it will impact me (per se) either way. It might help those that don't know they've got an issue, so in that sense it is probably useful.

[Bullethead]

Thanks for the answers, Skuzzy.

And yes, now I have both an attachment button and permission to use it.  I had neither when I 1st posted, so maybe it just took some time to show up and having to leave and come back in here.

[MachNix]

Well, I show my skins in this forum for critique already, so no problems here.  However I don't post work-in-progress shots unless I'm looking for more information on the skin.  The skinner should know when their work is ready for review and ready for submission.

As far as the "I'm working on this posts," I'm not a big fan.  People signed up to do skins and never completed them.  The reasons could very from not having the expertise to not having the time to get them done.  The result is not having worthy units, squadrons, or groups represented in the skin selection.  If you are working on a skin and someone else post the skin first, decide whether your skin will be better.  If not, stop working on it.  If it is going to be better, get it done and present it to the community.  The community should only comment on the skin's accuracy and not on whether we have one of those, or one is better than the other.  HTC should be the ones to decide if the skin is better or not and email the skinner directly.  As a skinner, I sure wouldn't want to hear HTC say, "Worst skin ever" about one of my skins in this forum.  We, as a community, don't need to know what subjective criteria HTC applied in making their decision.  HTC is somewhat anonymous so there is really no one to get mad at – except for Skuzzy of course with that big bull's-eye on his back.

[Nr_RaVeN]

Its a Nice thought  but...
I think Its unnecessary I like it the way it is now.
  everybody has a different take on things Its speculative. I would rather leave the decisions up to HTC and let them chose what skins make there game look better. I think things will get FUBAR the new way .
nitpicky and  going back and forth about PL and shadow lines  rivet size bla bla. WE paint em you pick em that's my vote.
I think it could turn into a Circus IMHO

[Citabria]

skuzzy have you considered the skinner team for taking on the responisbility of skin quality and historical accuracy. the names in the group have good credibility. we all are sticklers for detail and accuracy.

i cant speak for everyone in the group but it seems like it would be suited well since members are active mainly in the skin forum anyway.

just get one or two skinner team members to chime in on the skin and its set to go for inclusion in the game?

dunno whatever is fine but it seems like a simple solution without much complexity and it has credibility since the skinner team is responsible and finicky about their own preproduction skins accuracy and research.

im just saying if greebo or airmess or waffle or nomde etc and also a few nonskinner team members as well like kev367th and guppy35 say its accurate and good I almost always find myself in agreement with their assesment.