Author Topic: Todays Workforce  (Read 784 times)

Offline Hajo

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« on: April 20, 2006, 05:24:18 PM »
Ok.....so I had a particularly bad day at work today.  But it seems within the last ten years the days have been getting worse.

Here's my rant.  Been in Management for 36 years.  Most as frontline or a step higher management.  Currently title is General turn Supervisor on a Blast Furnace.  A tough job....and very dangerous at all times.  the environment can be harsh, heat, CO....Blast Furnace makes about 200Kcu. ft/min usually as a byproduct of ironmaking.  Gents and Ladies that I work with in a Union Shop trained to work with and within that environment.  things can go haywire fast.

When I started.....most of the people I worked with were older then me.  They took pride in the performance of their jobs.  Most worked without Supervision and were self motivated. About 20 years ago I noticed a change in the workforce.  Some started to just work for their paycheck...do the bare minimum and anything extra and beyond the call of duty out of the question. Helping another member who had a tad more work to do because of the circumstances became non existant.  Let the poor bastard die.....but when he required a little extra help moaned or complained like the world has come to an end if he/she didn't get any help.  It's gotten worse within the last 5 years.  They see impending disaster coming and instead of doing something minor to rectify the situation they stand and let the disaster happen.......brain dead.  You have to yell to get a response and when you do a temper tantrum is forthcoming from that employee and he generally makes the disaster a catastrophe.  And yes....this is a Union Shop.  That a suprise?  They get paid very well for their work.  Most make at least 70K a year and well over.  Paid Holidays (double time and a half)  Sundays they get time and a half......not to mention shift differential and performance has decreased.  They also get incentive and 5 weeks paid vacation after 20 years.

I'm making a request of upper echelon management that we be allowed to carry firearms.  If an employee complains or cries because he has to move a 10 lbs. bag of vermiculite I'd like permission to shoot and yell NEXT!

No wonder GM, Ford, Delphi and others in financial difficulties.  The local Delphi Plant has 40 some members that come to work and get full pay to read in the Lunchroom.  They aren't allowed to fill a job if there is an absence.  The Contract they signed with the Company let them have the option of being bought out with full pay.  They will retire and those taking their place will do so at a lower scale of pay.  Between the Companies and the Unions....this Country deserves what it gets.  And when those who lose their cushy jobs cry.......I wanna be there to tell them...well.....who's to blame?  Then hold a mirror to their faces if they can't come up with a response.
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Offline BTAirsol

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« Reply #1 on: April 20, 2006, 05:31:49 PM »
Unions had there place back in the 20's and 30's so the employee would not be taken advantage of. I see your frustraition during these times. In my factory, non union we have a hard working hespanic work force. They speak english or they will not be hired. The sad thing in my job is I have to replace the workers through attrition with robots. Is that a possible solution for you?

Offline RedTop

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« Reply #2 on: April 20, 2006, 06:10:18 PM »
Hajo,

I feel you. I don't work in a union shop. I would say that it is the general rule now a days for employees. I got a guy on my shift that pushes the clock every day when he comes to work. I mean everyday. So he has been late on more than 1 occasion. So I gave him a warning about it. He still pushed the limit. The other day he was late on the weekend relieveing the 1st shift. I found out about it and told him he would be written up. He got mad , said he wouldn't accept it and then said if he was written up there would be trouble. I told him if it was trouble he wanted I would be more than happy to oblige him after work.

The workers of the younger generation and even younger ones than I by just a few years , have gotten a crappy attitude towards work. They think they can do what they want when they want and nothing will happen. Unfortunatley I work for the state and have to document every dang thing.

Oh how I long for the days of come in late I warn ya. Come in again late and I tell ya hit the frikin door. Now if you even sneeze at em like something will be said well.....Youll hear about it from some lawyer type or some other type of rescue the buttmunch lazyazz types.

I'm so glad I will be able to retire in a few more years. Todays work force has no concept of what it takes to REALLY have to do a job.

Screw em.....I'll be sipping Iced Tea and playing Golf soon...while they sit and complain about how they are getting screwed.;
Original Member and Former C.O. 71 sqd. RAF Eagles

Offline Wolf14

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« Reply #3 on: April 20, 2006, 06:28:23 PM »
I work to live, not live to work.

Some folks just dont want to work or think.

Workforce is becomming a bunch of mindless zombies.

Offline Hajo

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« Reply #4 on: April 20, 2006, 06:41:19 PM »
Redtop I don't have much longer either.  And if it gets worse it will be a shorter time yet.

Being salaried 22 years ago when LTV pulled a leveraged buyout on Republic Steel.....those of us who were Salaried Employees of Republic Steel lost our Pensions.   That turned out to be a blessing in disguise.  The new Company then started a 401K Program for us which they contributed to for us individually.  Depending on years of Service etc.  Now...I'm in very good shape financially when I chose to retire.  If something should happen to the Company financially my 401K is mine...all of it. I'm not at the mercy of a so called Pension Fund which now a days has all the stability and security of oceanfront property in Florida.  Might be there next year....might not. The PBGC is deeply in debt and is fighting anyone who has pension liabilities in bankruptcy in court to push the pension elsewhere.  By the way, in 1984 when the merger occured, the PBGC sent me a letter stating that for the years of service I had my pension would be 126 dollars a month. Don't spend it all in one place. With good paying jobs becoming more scarce and the economy swinging to the service sector away from manufacturing with generally lower paying jobs, and the growing Economies of China etc. becoming a major force I wonder where jobs will come from.....and where the jobs that some have now will go.

Then I'm sure we'll have lots of people willing to shovel manure 12 hours a
day for 10 dollars an hour.

Conversly....the Companies in the US who move plants overseas for cheaper production costs looks great initially.  But....and I say but.. the people of the US are the biggest consumers of automobiles, appliances etc.
Wonder what will happen in the future when the people of the US won't be able in most part to afford a 30K automobile or a 300K dollar home....I don't think there will be much of a market for these high end goods in the US with wages falling....and I don't think the Chinese worker will be making 25 dollars an hour anytime soon.  So who's going to purchase these services and goods?  Or be able should I say to afford them?  third world countries?  Doubt it.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2006, 06:52:43 PM by Hajo »
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Offline LePaul

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« Reply #5 on: April 20, 2006, 07:03:55 PM »
My usual way to work is under construction so I have had to take an alternate route.  This route puts me thru Bucksport and by International Paper's plant.  As I drive by two parking lots, one is contractors and the other is employees.  

The contractor lot looks like a used car lot.  Minivans, modest sedans (Saturns, etc) and older trucks.  

The employee lot looks like a GM showroom.  Every highend truck, couple Beemers, sportscars and the like.

I'd say them union folks make a helluva wage compared to those other poor saps.

Just an observation...

Offline Urchin

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« Reply #6 on: April 20, 2006, 07:32:29 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Hajo
Then I'm sure we'll have lots of people willing to shovel manure 12 hours a
day for 10 dollars an hour.

Conversly....the Companies in the US who move plants overseas for cheaper production costs looks great initially.  But....and I say but.. the people of the US are the biggest consumers of automobiles, appliances etc.
Wonder what will happen in the future when the people of the US won't be able in most part to afford a 30K automobile or a 300K dollar home....I don't think there will be much of a market for these high end goods in the US with wages falling....and I don't think the Chinese worker will be making 25 dollars an hour anytime soon.  So who's going to purchase these services and goods?  Or be able should I say to afford them?  third world countries?  Doubt it.


That is where we are headed, imo.  In 50 years our standard of living will hit Africa's on the way up, then it will probably stop falling.

Offline FuBaR

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« Reply #7 on: April 20, 2006, 07:38:16 PM »
So how many of you guys have been to California lol?

Offline RedTop

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« Reply #8 on: April 20, 2006, 07:51:50 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by FuBaR
So how many of you guys have been to California lol?


Never......................an d want to know a secret?

Unless it involves Golf at Pebble Beach..........I'll never go
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Offline Pei

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« Reply #9 on: April 20, 2006, 07:54:08 PM »
You can't just go and blame the Unions, the change in the way companies treat their staff has had a big effect too.

Back when you started companies showed loyalty to their staff and understanding to. People knew that if they worked hard then they would always have a job. Nowadays companies just don't give damn, and will sack you as soon as some analyst complains about last quarters figures, or as soon as they can replace you with some cheaper worker straight out of school or outsource your job to China (whether or not they do as good a job as you).  So where is the incentive? Why bother investing emotionally in a organization that doesn't care at all about you? Loyalty is a big driving force but it is a two way street and it's the companies that have lost sight of it in their quest for efficiency and the bottom line.

Offline Hajo

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« Reply #10 on: April 20, 2006, 09:25:40 PM »
Pei....I agree whole heartedly with your statement.  If you wish to know why the US Steel Industry has disappeared I can tell you my point of view from experience.  Men who know all the aspects of manufacturing Steel don't generally run the Companies.  Usually a businessman...sometimes in Sales etc.  But very very infrequently someone who knows Steel.  So....they foresake longterm investments in the infrastructure for the quick gain in profitability.  Then...as the months and years roll by they suddenly understand that investments made in the infrastructure 10 to 15 years ago would have been much cheaper to do then, then do them now because they have to to stay competitive.  They either must now invest in upgrading to stay competitve....or get out of the business.  Seems the US Steel Industry has become the first short term cash cow to executives and investors.  And File chap 11 or 7 in the future because the investments they should have made 5 to the years ago are way more expensive now and not affordable.  Looks more like short term specualation then long term commitment to the Industry.  Auto Industry is now following suit in the US...as is most heavy manufacturing.  Largest Steel Co. in the US is now foreign owned.  Wonder if they'll make a long term commitment?  Even so our ability to make steel a vital component for many uses, is no longer a vital cog in US Manufacturing.  It's a vital Cog owned by foreign investors and owners.  Looks like the US is getting out of heavy manufacturing.  Guess we'll be dependant on the whims and wishes of foreign countries for steel, aluminum and other vital metals and minerals.  We'll eventually be held hostage for these materials as we are now being held hostage to Oil.

Employment looks to be controled in the future by foreign ownership.  IF for instance there is a downturn of sales of Toyotas, Hondas, etc.  I wonder if the US Companies will be closed first.....or will they close plants in their home countries?  I'll pick closing plants in the US.  US auto manufacturers doing it now.....Steel started doing the same years ago.

The US will be dependant on the whims for goods to foreign Countries.  Just as we now are for Oil.  And ya know what?  The US Oil Companies want it that way.  Why?  Can't make those billion dollar profits per quarter if gasoline and natural gas is cheap can they?  I mean who would invest?

The rich get richer......and the desparity between middle class and the Rich grows larger everyday.  Pretty soon will be no middle class.

As George Carlin says......"there are three classes of people.  the Rich, who do no work and pay 1% of the taxes, the middle class that does all the work and pays all the taxes, and the poor who are kept poor to scare the hell outta the middle class.  Seems to me recently, truer words have never been spoken.  I love this country :aok
« Last Edit: April 20, 2006, 09:32:46 PM by Hajo »
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Offline J_A_B

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« Reply #11 on: April 21, 2006, 12:10:06 AM »
What Hajo says with regards to the infastructure of the US steel industry is sadly accurate.  When my old man was forced into early retirement due to plant closing in the late '80's (he worked for USS, now called USX), the plant he worked at was almost entirely pre-WW2 tech.  He joked that the place was held together with bailing wire and masking tape.  Things got to the point where USS had to either modernize or shut down....and of course they shut down.

The sad part is the steel imported from Korea/China/etc is mostly crap.  Nobody gives a crap about quality anymore--not the people manufacturing, OR the people buying.  I laugh, in a sad way, at my rusty "made in china" stainless steel silverware (complete with easily-bent spoons), while the made-in-USA stuff I take out on the holidays is 80 years old and still looks brand new.


The people running the corporations know only greed, and a "profit now at any cost" mentality, even if it means taking actions which drive the company out of business several years down the road.  Urchin is also right--wages are declining, and eventually the credit bubble won't be able to cover the difference.  Thanks Baby Boomers, you guys are going to be the first generation who ever left the USA worse off than it was when you inhereted it.  


J_A_B

Offline Sandman

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« Reply #12 on: April 21, 2006, 12:23:46 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Pei
You can't just go and blame the Unions, the change in the way companies treat their staff has had a big effect too.

Back when you started companies showed loyalty to their staff and understanding to. People knew that if they worked hard then they would always have a job. Nowadays companies just don't give damn, and will sack you as soon as some analyst complains about last quarters figures, or as soon as they can replace you with some cheaper worker straight out of school or outsource your job to China (whether or not they do as good a job as you).  So where is the incentive? Why bother investing emotionally in a organization that doesn't care at all about you? Loyalty is a big driving force but it is a two way street and it's the companies that have lost sight of it in their quest for efficiency and the bottom line.


Ya know... this is the first thing that came to mind when I read Hajo's post.

The companies that hired our fathers and our grandfathers don't exist any longer. Yeah, the names are the same, but they aren't.
sand

Offline RTSigma

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« Reply #13 on: April 21, 2006, 03:45:26 AM »
As a member of this newer generation workforce, I can tell you what is happening. Take in mind, I am just a cook/buser for restaurant and this is what is contributing to the low morale that causes the workforce there to "give up" on hard work.


-First was bringing in managers that were trained from the outside or came from a different restaurant. Managers that rise to their position from the restaurant become the best managers because they understand what it is like for those at the bottom and understand the restaurant themselves. Ever seen Waiting? The part where the manager is obviously having trouble dealing with cookroom stress and managing food is what it is like when you have "alien managers". A manager from that restaurant would never, and I mean never, shake under pressure like that.

-Next was the treatment of staff. Some managers played favorites and this hurt a lot of people. I have been working there for nearly 5 years now. Benefits you get after certain years or hours come when you reach them. It took nearly an extra year to earn the personalized fleece (these are hella nice fleeces, trust me). I watched several those below me earn them before I did. I have recieved only one write up and never had been late by more than 5 minutes. People who are skipped tend to take note of this and take it out on the restaurant.

-My job as bus is to clean tables, stock silverware, plates, etc. Simple job. Hostesses stand at the front door and do nothing but greet and seat people. They get paid more than busers do. A bunch of the busers and staff petitioned that the hostesses do more work to pick up the slack on busier nights. This caused a huge freak out that left us appalled. Simple jobs that can be done while we're taking care of the madness like a quick spot sweep or even answering phones (bartenders do that, but theres times they're busy and the hostesses are close to the phone as well). We felt that the easier, higher-paid jobs that ANYONE could take (well, you had to be female) is getting special treatment. In response we would stop doing little things to get our way to show that maybe it was time to respect the wishes and thoughts of the staff.

-A benefit of the job was that if you worked there for over a year and had a good record, you could come in whenever you want and recieve a 50% discount on food. Direct family could also recieve the discount when they come with you. A nice benefit right? After a while this was stopped because it was being abused. After some talks with the staff, we realized that it wasn't being "abused" but was done so that more money went back to the restaurant. After another year, you were only allowed to get 50% discount on food if you are on break, or just got off break. No family members get the discount.  We were mad, we thought that we were being treated unfairly and that our trust and work were not valued. Take in mind, this restaurant I work at was #1 in the nation among the rest in the franchise.

-The restaurant has a bar and usually the staff are allowed to hang out after work to wind down and enjoy a beer or two. This was stopped after it became a "distraction" to the current working staff. Now after we are clocked out, we are told to leave. Sometimes even escorted by the manager (usually it is the ****head one that forces this). This was immediately declared BS. Customers and even working employees distracted each other, what would it hurt to have a few people from the previous shift hang out for 20 minutes after working and relax?

-The changing room for the men is a small bathroom with a stack of lockers that can at most hold a pair of shoes. Usually the kitchen staff put their work shoes in there so you can only imagine the smell that comes from there. The other option is to bring a bag and hang it from the hooks in there and risk your stuff being stolen. I once had my Addidas Samba's hidden for stealing (the culprit took my shoes, wrapped them in plastic bags several times over and put it on top of the lockers. After we found out who did it we fired him, no surprise, turned out to be a huge soccer fan). The women have TWO places to change, with one room having a camera that watches their possessions. See the unfairness here?

I tried taking pride in my job but it is hard to do when our staff is being treated unfairly and as if we're nothing. When your employer considers you nothing more than just a way to bring in money and not as a person, you become disenchanted with the workplace. If I am not considered a person then I will not act like one and well perform my tasks at the bare minimum acceptance rate that won't get me fired. Why try harder? I'm not getting any benefits or praise or the lure of a raise.

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Offline lazs2

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« Reply #14 on: April 21, 2006, 08:22:20 AM »
even when both are public servants there is an adversarial angle to managment/supervision.

I find that management is more concerned with career than making things better..   they are mostly just a certain style of haircut and a walking personality defect so far as I am concerned.

down in the trenches... a good supervisor gets as much done as he can before management sabatages his efforts... most of the guys will work together and make things work for everyone but management seems to want to interfere.

lazs