Oh my! Bush has lost his luster?!? Let the fun begin!

[Jimdandy]

 

Originally posted by Toad:
It's as easy as "pie" to see who's paying the overwhelming percentage of taxes in the US.
 http://www.allegromedia.com/sugi/taxes/#Head-1.htm

Projected Income Tax Burden for 1999
       
         

       

       

"An enormous percentage of taxes are payed by a minority of Americans:
 
The Top 1% of taxpayers pay 29% of all taxes.
 
The Top 5% of taxpayers pay 50% of all taxes.
 
Our tax system is not so much progressive as it is confiscatory -- Frederic Bastiat called this phenomenon "legal plunder."

A progressive tax is based on the premise that those with more income can afford to pay more taxes, and conversely, those with little or no income should pay no tax. However, a quick look at Graph 1A below shows that the U.S. tax system has become far beyond progressive.

Fully half the taxpayers contribute almost nothing in individual income taxes.
 
The Top 1% of income earners (comprising about 1 million families) earn about 15% of the total income earned by all wage earners in the United States, yet they pay almost 30% of all individual income taxes.

Furthermore, the Top 1% are shouldering a roughly 50% higher proportion of the overall income tax burden than they did in 1977.

The argument most oft used against tax breaks are that they benefit only the wealthy. It is clear from even a cursory look at the numbers below that the 'wealthy' will receive the majority of any income tax reduction because they pay a disproportionately huge percentage of the income taxes!

To structure a tax break such that those in upper income brackets are excluded would constitute nothing more than transfer of wealth from those who have it to those who don't (i.e. legal plunder.)"

Yeah, tell me again that it's not fair to give EVERYONE at tax cut.

     

[This message has been edited by Toad (edited 02-08-2001).]

Dang it Mr. Perot. LOL!

All I can say is that if Allen Greenspan says we can afford a tax cut if we don't get to crazy with the surplus money I believe him. That's one SMART SOB when it comes to M O N E Y. I will take Allen's word on this one and no one else. It just so happens that it agrees with Bush's. So be it. The economy is more an art than a sience and any economist will tell you that. Allen's been at it for A LONG time. He's not always right but he's the best man to ask.


[This message has been edited by Jimdandy (edited 02-12-2001).]

[Toad]

Towd, you ever figure out there are classifications above Top Secret?   Say, what rank did you end up with, anyway?  

Yeah, that Maslow…what a pseudo-intellectual! I’ll bet he would have wished that he had your in-depth insight into problems!

if the richest 5% up and left this country it would be the best thing that ever happened to this country ( since they made the richest 5% of this country quit enslaving people)

Like that incredibly incisive view right there. If the richest 5% left the country, EVERYTHING would be better. You’ve studied that and figured it right out!

Of course, your National tax income would drop by 53.8% and thus your entire government organization would collapse. I’m sure you could cover that by lowering the taxes for the bottom 50%, right? Like I said, you always provide the comic relief with your carefully thought out ideas.

Ever done any research into the percentage of taxation that drives investment AWAY from creating new jobs and into tax avoidance schemes? Try it sometime. There’s some great info from Sweden and the US available on the web. Careful, though…it’ll challenge your ideas about taxation.   Wait..no..that's knowledge..it'll make you break out in a rash!

BTW, Maslow would perfectly understand why "self-actualization" and "transcendence" would be alien concepts to many "inner-city
high school" students. In fact, his theories pretty much explain that situation. You might too, if you ever did a little research into Maslow and his pals instead of just complaining that "life isn’t fair!"

Hey, did you ever stop to think if you got to remake America in your image there probably wouldn’t be an AH?   Kill those steeenking CAPITALISTS!!!

The chances of the US going the way you desire in the next 50 years (if ever) are slim and none…  

[-towd_]

no idea what is higher than top secret super duper secret? hell i didnt want top secret. and i was a lowly e4.

now that you mention sweden , i have spent some time there . lets see one of the coldest countrys in the world and how many people feeze to death none. how many weeks vacation garenteed was it 4 or 5 . health care garenteed. crime low as hell . not to say it didnt have problems. national sport cheating on taxes. it was a damb sight less mean than,lets take texas for instance.

socialism is the only chance this country has or do you think we can keep havin a smaller and smaller percentage of the population own more and more of every thing forever . we all gonna rent from the 2 % that own every damb thing ?  right now in texas we are seeing the effects of mr bushes tax efforts.we are running out of money and the taxes never went down hmmmmm. his responce "im glad i dont have to deal with it"

the middle class in this country is being disenfranchised by the unquenchable thirst for money the wealthy seem to have . people here in texas that payed 80 bucks for natural gas last year are payin 400 bucks for the same amount this year. opec? hell no the gas comes from right here in texas its price gouging. i can name scame to screw the poor after scam .who the hell is gonna buy things from the wealthy when they have all the money?
if somthing dosent happen soon really bad things are gonna happen . but with bush in office i think it will be brought to a head much sooner.
also if 5 % of the country owns 60 percent of the property why they hell shouldent they pay more tax when they are using more services? you always seem to miss that point.

 mayby you dont see it from your vaulted position but the streets are getting meaner and meaner . your way is just to make the whole thing worse. they manjority was foiled this election but not for ever .move to another non socialistic democacy if you can find one ,crap there isent one now is there?.

think about that.
 

[Toad]

You know what the absolute best thing about our society is?

ANYONE can join the top 5% tax bracket. It's not an exclusive club.

You have to be focused. You have to know where you want to go. You have to understand the concept of money. You have to be able to distinguish between a true asset and a true  liability. You have to be willing to work your butt off. You have to be willing to postpone the "instant gratification" syndrome that seems to infect a large percentage of the population.

If you can do those things, you can make it.

I have no problem helping those who for a LEGITIMATE reason cannot help themselves. The sick, the old, the mentally disadvantaged and so forth. We SHOULD take care of them and we could do much better.

My problem is with those who sit on their rears and expect the world to come to them and fulfill their every wish and whim.

The opportunity is there. The only real question is "will you maximize it?". Some people aren't willing to work that hard and that's the simple truth.

also if 5 % of the country owns 60 percent of the property why they hell shouldent they pay more tax when they are using more services? you always seem to miss that point.

Without trying to verify your 5%/60% statement, I'll assume it could be true. I'm sure you are aware of PROPERTY tax as a separate and distinct tax? It's not income tax. Property owners pay property tax. Houses, cars, tires...all include taxes that "use services". Drive a lot? Use a lot of tires? You pay more than the guy who doesn't. The whole economy is full of user taxes. Toll booths on a freeway?

Income tax is NOT a user tax; at least its not supposed to be.

You really should do a little research into tax rates and tax avoidance and the effect it has on an economy. I'm sure you'll discount anything said about the US economy. However, type "tax rate avoidance Sweden" into google and do a little reading. You like how things turned out in Sweden right? See what they figured out about taxes.

Wanna know how I got to my "vaulted position"?

Here's the short version. My folks sent me to a good Catholic Grade School. That was given to me.

I worked after school in 7th and 8th grade because I knew I wanted to go to a good Jesuit High School and it was damn expensive. (My dad was a military officer with 4 kids and supported his mom and my maternal grandfather on THAT pay in the 50's and 60's.)

I studied hard enough to get accepted and I worked 5 nights a week after school for $50 a month to pay my tuition to the Jesuit High School.

I studied hard and graduated smart enough to get and AFROTC scholarship to college. I worked at a gas station throughout college to pay my living expenses. I went to pilot training and served for nearly 7 years.

I applied to 30 airlines when I got out and only one even acknowledged receiving the app. Nobody was hiring. Nobody. Just as my savings ran out, I got hired.

The first year I made 33% of what I had made in the AF. The second year I made about 65% of what I made in the AF. The third year I almost made what I made in the AF. In my 10th year, I more than doubled what I made in the AF. It's been downhill ever since.

Through all of that, I invested. Put off buying the cool toys and the big house.

I made it. I essentially started with nothing.

Nothing special about me, either. ANYONE can do it...if they're willing to work...and educate themselves.

Bet you hate me even more now, eh?  

[AKDejaVu]

I bet the Democrats are raising eyebrows after the first part of this week.

Bush has stated that he is not interested in persuing investigations against Mr. Clinton's final week in office... he'd rather let the whole thing go.  He has also stated that he's not against giving the military more money, he just wants to take a closer look at what its being spent on.

How can a D argue with either of those?

AKDejaVu