Originally posted by Kev367th
OK then can someone try the XIV v F4U-4, you have to agree it's more of a fair match (even at only 18lbs).
Touchy - guilty lol.
For what is basically a 1943 LF IX it sure seems to cause a lot of 'discussion'.
Well Kev, the Mk.XIV would be just as dead..... You're talking about a high altitude fighter that doesn't climb better than the Spit16, much slower roll rate and would be out-turned by the 4hog with little effort, especially to turning right. Unfortunately, the Spit14 is out of its element down low, whereas the F4U-4 is not. Indeed, it is a top performer from sea level to 30,000 feet.
I do not the see the Spitfire Mk.XIV (Spit14) doing any better than the Spit16. Its low speed handling is inferior to the Spit16, and it doesn’t climb any better. Acceleration is somewhat faster and it can manage 359 mph in WEP while skimming the tree tops, but stall fighting an F4U-4 would not be the best option. Its best scenario is to meet the F4U-4 above 20k. These two versions of the Spitfire have distinctly different mission specialties. I agree with Morpheus, that frankly, I find a well flown Spit8 to be more of a challenge than either the Spit14 or Spit16.
In the MA, most combat occurs well below 10,000 feet. Indeed, generally below 5,000 feet. Within that context, planes like the Spitfire Mk.XVI and La-7 are among the best. Both have very good acceleration and outstanding climb. We are all familiar with the La-7’s speed on the deck, and its very good roll and turning ability. While the Spit16 is not nearly as fast, it does roll faster and turns even better than the La-7. Both are serious threats.
In a sustained fight with the Dhog, the La-7 must rely upon vertical performance to defeat the F4U. Likewise, the Spit16 must do the same. Neither of these aircraft can win a simple turning fight as the F4Us can dump flaps and turn extremely tight circles. Not even the Niki can beat the Hogs in flat or nearly flat turns. To gain an advantage, the afore-mentioned fighters must pull the nose high enough that the Hog cannot match it without stalling. Once they establish enough of an advantage, they can roll in on the Hog. A smart F4U driver will see what they are doing, pull up some flaps and accelerate, the purpose being to have enough speed to meet the enemy head-on as they come down. After they pass, the Hog can do a textbook hammerhead reverse and drop into the rear hemisphere the enemy. If timed right, the F4U will get an opportunity for a shot. After that, they will be back in a lufberry again. If the Hog is flown with sufficient aggression, the Spitfire will be on the defensive much of the time. Let me remind everyone that the outcome of a fight can be determined on the merge. If you have never fought someone before, you will invariably have to guess how the other guy will reverse.
Unlike the F4U-1 series, the F4U-4 can match anything the other fighters can do in the vertical. Pulling the nose high gains nothing, as the -4 can follow and as speed drops, the 4hog is markedly more stable and responsive. The slower the fight gets, the more the 4hog shines.
Sure, you can use the F4U-4’s speed to pummel the Spitfire, but BnZ fighting is dull.. It’s a lot more entertaining to dump flaps and stall fight amongst the trees. Those fighters that can actually turn better than the F4U-4 cannot hope to match it in the vertical. Naturally, stall fighting in the MA is fraught with danger due to being a sitting duck for any other enemy fighters in the area. However, in a 1 vs 1, the F4U-4 is nearly unbeatable if the pilot knows how to utilize the full capability of the plane.
Naturally, all the above assumes pilots of comparable skills. Where you have a good pilot vs the typical denizen of the MA, a Bf 109F-4 can handle the Spit16. It is important that people not get cocky because they out-turned a P-38L with a P-47, or a Spit8 with a Tiffie. Logic says that what the actually did was out-fly a lesser pilot, who just happened to be flying a better airplane. As FX-1 demonstrated, someone who knows their plane, and knows how to get max performance out of it, will easily beat an inexperienced pilot flying virtually anything. FX-1 schooled a bunch of guys in that regard.
This is why I prefer dissimilar aircraft for duels, especially if the pilots have very similar skills. These duels better show the relative weaknesses and strengths of the airplanes, thus providing us with a better understanding of what to expect. For me it’s not a matter of winning or losing, it’s about gathering information and having a good time while doing it.
My regards,
Widewing
