Muslim group *demands* apology

[Boxboy]

Originally posted by boxboy28
This makes me proud to be a Spartan, MSU alumni!   LOL we all know its not because of our sports teams!

LOL having grown up 2 miles from MSU's campus I can tell you that if you think it is a Right oriented school you should have seen it in the "old days".

MSU today is regarded by most in the Lansing area to be one of the most "liberal" schools in the nation, and many long for the good ol days of yesteryear.

[Wolfala]

Ba da da da...

[Debonair]

Originally posted by TPIguy
Seagoon, how about if they abolished the first amendment and our freedom of religion?

freedom of religon is an illusion.

[Yeager]

You can believe whatever religion you want but when you must kill me if I am not a believer in your religion then you are on my "most in need of extinction list"

[CHECKERS]

I had no idea who General Chong is or the source of these thoughts... so when I received them, I almost deleted them - as well-written as they are. But then I did "Google and USA Today" searches on the General and found him to be a retired Air Force Surgeon of all things and past Commander of Wilford Hall Medical Center in San Antonio. So he is real, is connected to Veterans affairs, and these are his thoughts. They are worth reading and thinking about!! (the same Google search will direct you to some of his other thought-provoking writings.)

 

MG Vernon Chong, USAFR forwarded:

       

This WAR is for REAL!

 

To get out of a difficulty, one usually must go through it.  Our country is now facing the most serious threat to its existence, as we know it, that we have faced in your lifetime and mine (which includes WWII).

 

The deadly seriousness is greatly compounded by the fact that there are very few of us who think we can possibly lose this war and even fewer who realize what losing really means.

 

First, let's examine a few basics:

 

1. When did the threat to us start?

 

Many will say September 11, 2001. The answer as far as the United States is concerned is 1979, 22 years prior to September 2001, with the following attacks on us:

 

* Iran Embassy Hostages, 1979;

* Beirut, Lebanon Embassy 1983;

* Beirut, Lebanon Marine Barracks 1983;

* Lockerbie, Scotland Pan-Am flight to New York 1988;

* First New York World Trade Center attack 1993;

* Dhahran, Saudi Arabia Khobar Towers Military complex 1996;

* Nairobi, Kenya US Embassy 1998;

* Dares Salaam, Tanzania US Embassy 1998;

* Aden, Yemen USS Cole 2000;

* New York World Trade Center 2001;

* Pentagon 2001.

 

(Note that during the period from 1981 to 2001 there were 7,581 terrorist attacks worldwide).

 

2. Why were we attacked?

 

Envy of our position, our success, and our freedoms. The attacks happened during the administrations of Presidents

Carter, Reagan, Bush 1, Clinton and Bush 2. We cannot fault either the Republicans or Democrats as there were no

provocations by any of the presidents or their immediate predecessors, Presidents Ford or Carter.

 

3. Who were the attackers?

 

In each case, the attacks on the US were carried out by Muslims.

 

4. What is the Muslim population of the World? 25%.

 

5. Isn't the Muslim Religion peaceful?

 

Hopefully, but that is really not material. There is no doubt that the predominately Christian population of Germany

was peaceful, but under the dictatorial leadership of Hitler (who was also Christian), that made no difference. You

either went along with the administration or you were eliminated. There were 5 to 6 million Christians killed by

the Nazis for political reasons (including 7,000 Polish priests). (see http://www.nazis.testimony.co.uk/7-a.htm )

 

Thus, almost the same number of Christians were killed by the Nazis, as the six million holocaust Jews who were killed

by them, and we seldom heard of anything other than the Jewish atrocities. Although Hitler kept the world focused on

the Jews, he had no hesitancy about killing anyone who got in his way of exterminating the Jews or of taking over the

world - German, Christian or any others.

 

Same with the Muslim terrorists. They focus the world on the US, but kill all in the way -- their own people or the

Spanish, French or anyone else. The point here is that just like the peaceful Germans were of no protection to anyone

from the Nazis, no matter how many peaceful Muslims there may be, they are no protection for us from the terrorist

Muslim leaders and what they are fanatically bent on doing -- by their own pronouncements -- killing all of us

"infidels." I don't blame the peaceful Muslims. What would you do if the choice was shut up or die?

 

6. So who are we at war with?

 

There is no way we can honestly respond that it is anyone other than the Muslim terrorists. Trying to be politically

correct and avoid verbalizing this conclusion can well be fatal. There is no way to win if you don't clearly recognize

and articulate who you are fighting.

So with that background, now to the two major questions:
1. Can we lose this war?
2. What does losing really mean?
If we are to win, we must clearly answer these two pivotal questions.
We can definitely lose this war, and as anomalous as it may sound, the major reason we can lose is that so many of us
simply do not fathom the answer to the second question -
What does losing mean?
It would appear that a great many of us think that losing the war means hanging our heads, bringing the troops home
and going on about our business, like post Vietnam. This is as far from the truth as one can get. What losing really
means is:
We would no longer be the premier country in the world. The attacks will not subside, but rather will steadily increase.
Remember, they want us dead, not just quiet. If they had just wanted us quiet, they would not have produced an
increasing series of attacks against us, over the past 18 years. The plan was clearly, for terrorist to attack us,
until we were neutered and submissive to them.
We would of course have no future support from other nations, for fear of reprisals and for the reason that they would
see, we are impotent and cannot help them.
They will pick off the other non-Muslim nations, one at a time. It will be increasingly easier for them. They already
hold Spain hostage. It doesn't matter whether it was right or wrong for Spain to withdraw its troops from Iraq. Spain
did it because the Muslim terrorists bombed their train and told them to withdraw the troops. Anything else they want
Spain to do will be done. Spain is finished.
The next will probably be France. Our one hope on France is that they might see the light and realize that if we don't
win, they are finished too, in that they can't resist the Muslim terrorists without us. However, it may already be too
late for France. France is already 20% Muslim and fading fast!
If we lose the war, our production, income, exports and way of life will all vanish as we know it. After losing, who
would trade or deal with us, if they were threatened by the Muslims.
If we can't stop the Muslims, how could anyone else?
The Muslims fully know what is riding on this war, and therefore are completely committed to winning, at any cost.
We better know it too and be likewise committed to winning at any cost.
Why do I go on at such lengths about the results of losing? Simple. Until we recognize the costs of losing, we cannot
unite and really put 100% of our thoughts and efforts into winning. And it is going to take that 100% effort to win.
So, how can we lose the war?

[CHECKERS]

Again, the answer is simple. We can lose the war by "imploding." That is, defeating ourselves by refusing to
recognize the enemy and their purpose, and really digging in and lending full support to the war effort. If we are united, there is no way that we can lose. If we continue to be divided, there is no way that we can win!
Let me give you a few examples of how we simply don't comprehend the life and death seriousness of this situation.
President Bush selects Norman Mineta as Secretary of Transportation. Although all of the terrorist attacks were
committed by Muslim men between 17 and 40 years of age, Secretary Mineta refuses to allow profiling. Does that sound like we are taking this thing seriously? This is war! For the duration, we are going to have to give up some of the
civil rights we have become accustomed to. We had better be prepared to lose some of our civil rights temporarily or we will most certainly lose all of them permanently.
And don't worry that it is a slippery slope. We gave up plenty of civil rights during WWII, and immediately restored
them after the victory and in fact added many more since then.
Do I blame President Bush or President Clinton before him?
No, I blame us for blithely assuming we can maintain all of our Political Correctness, and all of our civil rights
during this conflict and have a clean, lawful, honorable war. None of those words apply to war. Get them out of your
head.
Some have gone so far in their criticism of the war and/or the Administration that it almost seems they would literally
like to see us lose. I hasten to add that this isn't because they are disloyal. It is because they just don't recognize
what losing means. Nevertheless, that conduct gives the impression to the enemy that we are divided and weakening.
It concerns our friends, and it does great damage to our cause.
Of more recent vintage, the uproar fueled by the politicians and media regarding the treatment of some prisoners of war, perhaps exemplifies best what I am saying. We have recently had an issue, involving the treatment of a few Muslim prisoners of war, by a small group of our military police. These are the type prisoners who just a few months ago were throwing their own people off buildings, cutting off their hands, cutting out their tongues and otherwise murdering their own people just for disagreeing with Saddam Hussein.
And just a few years ago these same type prisoners chemically killed 400,000 of their own people for the same
reason. They are also the same type enemy fighters, who recently were burning Americans, and dragging their charred corpses through the streets of Iraq.
And still more recently, the same type enemy that was and is providing videos to all news sources internationally, of the beheading of American prisoners they held.
Compare this with some of our press and politicians, who for several days have thought and talked about nothing else but the "humiliating" of some Muslim prisoners -- not burning them, not dragging their charred corpses through the streets, not beheading them, but "humiliating" them.
Can this be for real?
The politicians and pundits have even talked of impeachment of the Secretary of Defense. If this doesn't show the
complete lack of comprehension and understanding of the seriousness of the enemy we are fighting, the life and death
struggle we are in and the disastrous results of losing this war, nothing can.
To bring our country to a virtual political standstill over this prisoner issue makes us look like Nero playing his
fiddle as Rome burned -- totally oblivious to what is going on in the real world. Neither we, nor any other country, can
survive this internal strife. Again I say, this does not mean that some of our politicians or media people are
disloyal. It simply means that they are absolutely oblivious to the magnitude, of the situation we are in and into which
the Muslim terrorists have been pushing us, for many years.
Remember, the Muslim terrorists stated goal is to kill all infidels! That translates into ALL non-Muslims -- not just
in the United States, but throughout the world.
We are the last bastion of defense.
We have been criticized for many years as being 'arrogant.' That charge is valid in at least one respect. We are
arrogant in that we believe that we are so good, powerful and smart, that we can win the hearts and minds of all those
who attack us, and that with both hands tied behind our back, we can defeat anything bad in the world!
We can't!
If we don't recognize this, our nation as we know it will not survive, and no other free country in the world will
survive if we are defeated.
And finally, name any Muslim countries throughout the world that allow freedom of speech, freedom of thought, freedom of religion, freedom of the press, equal rights for anyone -- let alone everyone, equal status or any status for women, or that have been productive in one single way that contributes to the good of the world.
This has been a long way of saying that we must be united on this war or we will be equated in the history books to the
self-inflicted fall of the Roman Empire. If, that is, the Muslim leaders will allow history books to be written or
read.
If we don't win this war right now, keep a close eye on how the Muslims take over France in the next 5 years or less.
They will continue to increase the Muslim population of France and continue to encroach little by little, on the
established French traditions. The French will be fighting among themselves, over what should or should not be done,
which will continue to weaken them and keep them from any united resolve. Doesn't that sound eerily familiar?
Democracies don't have their freedoms taken away from them by some external military force. Instead, they give their freedoms away, politically correct piece by politically correct piece.
And they are giving those freedoms away to those who have shown, worldwide, that they abhor freedom and will not apply it to you or even to themselves, once they are in power.
They have universally shown that when they have taken over, they then start brutally killing each other over who will be the few who control the masses. Will we ever stop hearing from the politically correct, about the "peaceful Muslims"?
I close on a hopeful note, by repeating what I said above. If we are united, there is no way that we can lose. I hope
now after the election, the factions in our country will begin to focus on the critical situation we are in, and will
unite to save our country. It is your future we are talking about! Do whatever you can to preserve it.





 Muslims ? They can KMA !

 CHECKERS

[Westy]

If you're going to start foaming at the mouth and get all worked up about Mooselimbs taking over the world and them making your womenZ wear burkas then at least do it based on facts and and not some kind of intardnet bait aimed at "knuckle dragging" stupid types...


http://www.snopes.com/rumors/soapbox/chong.asp

[mars01]

Spain did it because the Muslim terrorists bombed their train and told them to withdraw the troops. Anything else they want
Spain to do will be done. Spain is finished.
The next will probably be France.

Fake or not add Poland and you have the first few countries to fall in WWII - interesting.

[Debonair]

D.B. Cooper is a muslim

[TPIguy]

We had better be prepared to lose some of our civil rights temporarily or we will most certainly lose all of them permanently.

I don't believe there acutally is such a thing as a "temporary" loss of civil rights. Once you lose them they are gone for good. It dosen't matter how, why or to who you lose them to.

[Vudak]

Originally posted by Westy
If you're going to start foaming at the mouth and get all worked up about Mooselimbs taking over the world and them making your womenZ wear burkas then at least do it based on facts and and not some kind of intardnet bait aimed at "knuckle dragging" stupid types...


http://www.snopes.com/rumors/soapbox/chong.asp

Well then that's one smart retired-attorney there.  When's the aluminum drive?

[indy007]

Originally posted by TPIguy
I don't believe there acutally is such a thing as a "temporary" loss of civil rights. Once you lose them they are gone for good. It dosen't matter how, why or to who you lose them to.

Japanese Americans lost their civil rights in WW2, were put in camps, and later restored as citizens. Slaves came here with nothing and eventually were emancipated. Prohibition turned ordinary people into criminals, but was repealed. Even women can vote nowadays

I'm not saying it was okay to put people in camps, but to say that there's no such thing as a temporary loss is historically incorrect. That said, best to not give up the rights in the first place

[Seagoon]

Hello TPI,

Originally posted by TPIguy
Seagoon, how about if they abolished the first amendment and our freedom of religion?

That's a subject I've intellectually struggled with for some time.

Both historically and in the present, many bible-believing Christians have lived as citizens of lands in which the practice or promulgation of Christianity is forbidden without actually taking up arms against the state. This has been the case from the very beginning. For instance, in Acts chapter 5 the Sanhedrin (the Jewish ruling counsel) forbade the Apostles to teach and preach the Christian faith for a second time, the apostles never even considered complying with this command, declaring simply to the authorities: "We ought to obey God rather than men."

Naturally, this brought increasing persecution down upon them, including, beatings, prison, and execution. By the end of the first century, the Roman Empire had made Christianity one of the empire's only illegal religions, and began actively persecuting those who worshipped Jesus, particularly because they would not perform certain civic/ceremonial duties all loyal members of the empire were expected to perform including the sacrificial burning of incense to Caesar (an act of worship and obedience). And yet throughout two hundred of years of active persecution, the Christians never took up arms against the state in armed rebellion, they simply continued to practice the faith and eventually overcame the empire not by strength of arms, but through the message of the gospel.

So, I can find little support for armed rebellion in order to secure religious freedom in the apostolic or ancient church. Frankly, the course of action was civil disobedience and occasionally flight.

Frankly, I expect my religious freedom to be gradually whittled away and for the state to increasingly insist on a right to assume the perogatives of the family in "training children." For instance, the recently passed SB 1437 in California which requires "all grades" in Public Schools to actively promote and teach homosexual history and forbids "adverse" commentary on homosexuality whether it be in text books or teachings. This would include speaking of marriage only in terms of one woman and one man. This of course essentially circumvents the ability of Christian parents to consistently teach the biblical viewpoint regarding sex and ethics. In many states it is becoming increasingly difficult to homeschool, and obviously not every parent can afford to pay taxes to support public schools and also pay for a private school education. I expect these legislative trends to increase, especially as the bible and Evangelical Christianity become progressively more unpopular in the West and the inhibitions regarding legislating against "hate speech" continue to fade.

So should we begin an armed rebellion when there is no other way to protect our right to raise up our own children? The emotive side of me wants to say yes, but while I can find plenty of examples of civil disobedience (I would have no problems hiding Jews from Nazis for instance), I find the biblical bar for armed rebellion against the civil magistrate set very high. I know that evangelical Christians were leaders in the English Civil War and the American Revolution, but I often wonder if they were not too quick to take up arms.

Anyway, that's my struggle. So the answer to your question is "not necessarily." In fact I just got finished typing an email to a man pastoring a new church in a country where it is illegal to start a new church. None of his members have plans for an armed uprising.

- SEAGOON

[CHECKERS]

Originally posted by Westy
If you're going to start foaming at the mouth and get all worked up about Mooselimbs taking over the world and them making your womenZ wear burkas then at least do it based on facts and and not some kind of intardnet bait aimed at "knuckle dragging" stupid types...


http://www.snopes.com/rumors/soapbox/chong.asp

 Westy, According to your snops liberal based California based website .....
 You may be right ........ about the author ...  I conceed to that,
 But as to your your other mental miget remarks to me, and about "my Old Lady " ?
 from your little perch .........


   I can back my mud !
 
 CHECKERS

[TPIguy]

Very thought provoking answer Seagoon. I rarely post here, but I always enjoy reading what you have to say. Thanks for taking the time to address my question.