Author Topic: CH vs Cougar vs Saitek X52 (X45)  (Read 1981 times)

Offline Stone

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 459
CH vs Cougar vs Saitek X52 (X45)
« on: April 25, 2006, 03:31:10 AM »
Are they all of top quality?

I have not used any of these, but I hear good about them all.

Price difference is huge, but is the quality also?
If not I just get the X52 or maybe even X45

CH Fighterstick USB + CH Pro Throttle USB 315€
Thrustmaster Hotas Cougar 270€
Saitek X52 Flight Control System 140€

Offline straffo

  • Persona Non Grata
  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 10029
CH vs Cougar vs Saitek X52 (X45)
« Reply #1 on: April 25, 2006, 04:19:19 AM »
CH is vastly superior to Cougar or Saitek X52 or Saitek X45.

Expect the 45 to be dead within 1 or 2 year.
The cougar potentiometer will survive 1 to 6 month and show center play after the same duration.
The only real solution for a cougar is to add a modification like the ones found here http://forums.frugalsworld.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=35029

Quality will improove but cost will skyrocket.
Out of the box the best of the best are the CH.


So the real choice is : saitek each year or CH (on this BBS there is people using 8 year old fighterstick :))

Offline DonULFonso

  • Zinc Member
  • *
  • Posts: 98
      • http://www.Thrustmaster-X-Files.de
Re: CH vs Cougar vs Saitek X52 (X45)
« Reply #2 on: April 25, 2006, 10:30:06 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Stone
CH Fighterstick USB + CH Pro Throttle USB 315€
Thrustmaster Hotas Cougar 270€
Saitek X52 Flight Control System 140€ [/B]


Just FYI: CH Fighterstick USB + CH Pro Throttle USB 190$ = 153€

I've got both the HOTAS Cougar as well as the CHs.

The Cougar is unequalled in terms of ergonomics, but without mods it's a matter of taste whether you like the stiff springs that don't allow for any fine-control or the sloppy center of the stock gimbals. If you don't mind to invest further money in it (almost twice as much as the price of the Cougar itself) to get modded gimbals with Hall-sensors, then you'll get the most ergonomic flight-controller you can get.

If you expect a perfect feeling right out of the box and don't mind a desgn that's no replica of seomething real, then the CHs should be more to your liking.

Do you expect and probably even need support? Do you plan to upgrade your OS to 64-bit sooner or later? These might be further things to consider.

Offline Stone

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 459
CH vs Cougar vs Saitek X52 (X45)
« Reply #3 on: April 25, 2006, 11:52:04 AM »
I am quite hoples in mechanical stuff, so it beter work out of the box :)

It sounds that CH is the system I should get.

Seems that the price for CH products are much higher over here (EU/Finland).

Offline Mustaine

  • Parolee
  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4139
CH vs Cougar vs Saitek X52 (X45)
« Reply #4 on: April 25, 2006, 12:03:29 PM »
it may be minor and silly, but if you have smaller hands the CH fighterstick may be hard to use. personally i can't reach the top fire button without re-positioning my hand, and using the hat is uncomfortable too.
Genetically engineered in a lab, and raised by wolverines -- ]V[ E G A D E T ]-[
AoM DFC ZLA BMF and a bunch of other acronyms.

Offline Visigothan

  • Zinc Member
  • *
  • Posts: 26
      • http://www.ramenbudget.com
CH vs Cougar vs Saitek X52 (X45)
« Reply #5 on: April 25, 2006, 12:07:46 PM »
I've used the CH Fighterstick, the Saitek X52 and currently own a Thrustmaster Cougar.

In my opinion, the Cougar is the only one that didn't feel cheap and crappy. I also found that straight out of the box, it delivered more precise control due to its heavier base and heavy springs.

I would personally prefer a greater than 18lb pull on the springs, maybe more like 25, but I'm not willing to shell out the money for that right now.

Offline DonULFonso

  • Zinc Member
  • *
  • Posts: 98
      • http://www.Thrustmaster-X-Files.de
CH vs Cougar vs Saitek X52 (X45)
« Reply #6 on: April 25, 2006, 12:54:55 PM »
Open Foxy's "Joystick Analyser" and try to move your Cougar in a circle :confused: - then dare to repeat that it would allow a "more precise control" :rolleyes: ; the rhombus you'll see instead of the circle :( which you might have expected is "due to its [...] heavy springs" :p .

Offline StarOfAfrica2

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5162
      • http://www.vf-17.org
CH vs Cougar vs Saitek X52 (X45)
« Reply #7 on: April 25, 2006, 01:11:36 PM »
Cougar is probably the best overall, but as noted it will need mods done to it to truly make it the controller it could be.  Lots of people use and love their Saitek sticks.  I personally have never met a Saitek stick I liked.  Like Krusty's complaint about the CH stick, my hands just dont fit nicely on any Saitek I've ever tried.  

My analog CH gear is over 9 years old now.  I had to replace 1 potentiometer in the rudder pedals.  Cost me like 20 bucks with shipping included.  Took several years to wear that out.  I do have 1 button on the joystick that sticks when I push down on it, need to take it apart and clean the gunk off of it, but other than that it works as well as the day I bought it.  No matter where I look, I keep coming back to the same rig I've had all along.  I just cant beat it.  Not by enough to consider replacing it anyway.

Offline Visigothan

  • Zinc Member
  • *
  • Posts: 26
      • http://www.ramenbudget.com
CH vs Cougar vs Saitek X52 (X45)
« Reply #8 on: April 25, 2006, 01:28:12 PM »
DonULFonzo:

I'll admit, the Cougar isn't the most precise stick on the market, but it definitely feels the best in my hands.

Then again, choosing a controller is a lot like choosing a desk chair - you have to pick the one that "feels" right or you'll hate it every time you use it. :D

Offline straffo

  • Persona Non Grata
  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 10029
CH vs Cougar vs Saitek X52 (X45)
« Reply #9 on: April 25, 2006, 03:26:34 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Mustaine
it may be minor and silly, but if you have smaller hands the CH fighterstick may be hard to use. personally i can't reach the top fire button without re-positioning my hand, and using the hat is uncomfortable too.


Don't you move your hand ?
I do.

Offline Bruno

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1252
      • http://4jg53.org
CH vs Cougar vs Saitek X52 (X45)
« Reply #10 on: April 25, 2006, 03:43:58 PM »
I have all CH stuff. I owned a Cougar and it sucked bellybutton out of the box, only after almost completely rebuilding it and replacing parts did it get better. But after all that the paint began flaking off all over my desk. I sold it in on ebay and bought CH stuff. The cost and hassle involved to get the Cougar up to par just aint worth it IMHO.

CH has been much better and with the CH manager CH has every program novelty the Cougar has. The CH springs were a little weak after coming from the Cougar but it was no big thing.

I know quite a few folks who ditched their Cougars for CH. In fact Revvin, who is the Admin over at CH Hangar was one of them.

Saitek stuff is ok if that's all you can afford or want to spend on a game JS but I went through 4 x36 hotas in a year. Each time they were replaced for free but the quality was so crappy that it wasn't worth keeping.

I own 2 CH Hotas (fighterstick / pro-throttle / pro-peds). The only problem I ever had was my 5 year old pro-pedals broke a wire. I could have fixed it myself but if ever take apart your pedals they are a real pain to get back together. I got in touch with the CH folks and they repaired them for the cost of shipping.

CH is far superior in quality and everyone I know, with few exceptions, have been hassle free.

Offline SNO

  • Aces High CM Staff
  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2288
CH vs Cougar vs Saitek X52 (X45)
« Reply #11 on: April 25, 2006, 06:19:28 PM »
I have CH fighterstick and throttle, the hat is too high on the fighterstick for me also so I just mapped the views to the throttle hat and like that much better anyways now that I am used to it.
☩Schnee☩
Jagdgeschwader 11

Das-Beste-kommt-erst-noch

Offline DonULFonso

  • Zinc Member
  • *
  • Posts: 98
      • http://www.Thrustmaster-X-Files.de
CH vs Cougar vs Saitek X52 (X45)
« Reply #12 on: April 26, 2006, 01:56:00 AM »
Actually, neither Thrustmaster's F-16 FLCS or F-22 Pro or their successor, Guillemot's HOTAS Cougar, nor CH Products' Fighterstick or Combatstick are "too big" - it's rather that Saitek's X36, X-45 and X-52, just as Logitech's sticks or Microsoft's Sidewinders, are kind of "too small":

The "real deal", the F-16's flight-stick - of which said Thrustmaster's high-end controllers are replicas, and after which CH Products' controllers are modelled (though not exactly copied), too -, has been designed that way on purpose:
  • Usually, your hand rests on the plate at the base of these sticks, in which position you can easily access all buttons and coolie-hats except the two controls at the uppermost top of the stick: the POV-coolie and the thumb-button; this position is called the "low grip".
  • To operate any of these two controls at the uppermost top of the stick - the POV-coolie and the thumb-button -, you are supposed to lift your hand a bit so that your thumb can reach these controls; this position is called the "high grip".
This is the way this stick has been designed to be used in real life, and the USAF has spent a lot of time and money to develop this design.

Many high-end flightsticks follow this design, but most low- and middle-class joysticks don't: they are smaller than "serious" flightsticks, and hence you don't need to change your grip. If you're new to flight-simulations you might like it this way; if you're coming from full-sized replicas it can be irritating, to say the least - I for one find Saitek's HOTAS-sticks too small for my own taste. I can fully understand anyone who prefers smaller stick where you don't need to change grips - but to call full-sized replicas "too big" just proves a lack of info on the purpose of their design: they are not "too big", they only are meant to be used using two different "grips". If you don't like this concept, then this can be a valid point (for you, personally), but not understanding this concept cannot be a valid point, IMHO.

Anyway, back on topic: In our virtual life of playing flight-simulations on the computer, the coolie-hat on top of our sticks usually is pre-configured to act as POV-coolie so that we can look around. Since this is an essential function, the need to change into the "high grip" with "serious" flightsticks (as opposed to the usual "arcade" joysticks) quite often in fact can be annoying. Those who are using a head-tracker (be it hardware such as the TrackIR or software such as "Cam2Pan" to use a web-cam to control the view) don't have this issue, those who don't have one do.

However, no one forces anyone to really use the POV-coolie as POV-coolie: when Microsoft defined "hat 1" to be the POV-coolie, a single coolie-hat already was a luxury; today, all of the controllers mentioned above feature more than just a single coolie-hat, and their throttles usually feature further additional coolie-hats, too. All of the controllers mentioned above allow you to set up and use any of the avaliable coolie-hats as POV-coolie (as long as it operates 8-way, or at least 4-way with corners, that is)! Personally, I, too, always preferred to use an 8-way coolie-hat on my throttle instead of on my stick as POV-coolie, since this way I don't have to change into the less comfortable "high grip" to start with, and I can use any of the stick's coolie-hats at the same time, while panning my view around.

Offline DAVENRINO

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1084
CH vs Cougar vs Saitek X52 (X45)
« Reply #13 on: April 26, 2006, 03:04:50 AM »
I've been using my CH HOTAS for bout 4 years and love it.  I also use the  Pro Throttle 8-way for views.  I had to change a  pitch pot once , but it only took 15 miniutes to steal the one from the Fighterstick throttle that never gets used.

I always hated the stiff springs in my old Thrustmaster F16 and F22 besides the fact that they both spiked out of the box.

I cetainly don't care that my CH gear isn't an exact replica of F16 controls; especially since I only use them for WW2 planes.;)
DAVE aka DJ229-AIR MAFIA
CH USB HOTAS/ONKYO 705 7.2 SURROUND SOUND/ 60" SONY A3000 SXRD  TV

Offline DonULFonso

  • Zinc Member
  • *
  • Posts: 98
      • http://www.Thrustmaster-X-Files.de
CH vs Cougar vs Saitek X52 (X45)
« Reply #14 on: April 26, 2006, 03:21:48 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by DAVENRINO
I always hated the stiff springs in my old Thrustmaster F16 and F22 besides the fact that they both spiked out of the box.

The F16 had very soft springs - it was its "bigger brother", the F22, that had these stiff springs; the only version of the F16 that had stiff springs - the ones later used in teh F22 - was that "gold edition" of the F16, kind of a prototype of the F22 with a different base. Spiking was an issue of the F22, too, not that much for the F16; mine - bought back in '94 - is still alive and kicking without any spiking.

Quote
Originally posted by DAVENRINO
I certainly don't care that my CH gear isn't an exact replica of F16 controls; especially since I only use them for WW2 planes.;)

I certainly don't care that my TM gear is an exact replica of F16 controls, even though I only use them for WWII planes ;) - after all, I got it due to its inumerable programmable controls :) .