For anyone who thinks Buffs are overmodeled

[tapakeg]

Flying Fortress



It kept flying in this video, not sure how far it flew after this.........


Tap

[Stang]

Buff guns are overmodeled, I'm fine with the ammount of damage buffs can take.

[SFCHONDO]

I agree with Stang, I think the guns should be toned down alot. I wouldn't even mind if the Buffs were able to take MORE damage. It's the guns that are a bit retarded. Killing ya 1500 out, is a bit of a Stretch.

[hulk31st]

I've seen this clip before and I've always wondered--why are there no gunners firing back at the attacker?

The B-17 just flies on and on, taking hit after hit.

None of the guns are pointed in the attacker's direction and none appear to be firing---why?

[Krusty]

It's not the guns. It's the bombers' full-out-non-stop FFT speed. Historically they rarely ever reached these speeds. In AH they only ever reach anything lower when they're taking off (and not even landing, most don't bother with that part of the game).

They *wouldn't* get 1.2k shots off on you if you weren't struggling to keep up with them in a fighter (bombers outrunning fighters, right. Like THAT was the norm!). They would be flying slower, you would be flying faster, you wouldn't loiter behind them, you'd be able to actually overtake them, set up slashing runs, side runs, attacks from anywhere other than dead 6, where the speeds involved mean that they can shoot further (you're heading into the bullets from dead 6). Once I'm ahead or abeam of a bomber, the most they can ever hope to ping me is at 800, 600 or less more realistically. It's only the aft angle that allows such long range shots.

And it's all because of the retarded speed of bombers. A second fuel burn for heavy bombers would solve this problem. Just bump it up 4x (so instead of 25% for 1+ hours flight time, you need 100% for 1+ hours flight time).

[pipz]

Originally posted by hulk31st
I've seen this clip before and I've always wondered--why are there no gunners firing back at the attacker?

The B-17 just flies on and on, taking hit after hit.

None of the guns are pointed in the attacker's direction and none appear to be firing---why?

The tail gunner was prolly dead at that point.If ya look close you will see two ball turrets on the bottom of the plane.This was one of those up-guned 17s that was suppose to act as a flyin anit-aircraft platform.

Pipz

[Krusty]

Nope. That second turret is the chin gun. YB-40s had 2 dorsal turrets, I think. Not 2 ventral.

There's been some debate about this film, just going from memory on these forums. Some think it was a captured plane and the pilot bailed just before the attack (to me it looks like 1 person bails just seconds before the fighter opens fire).

It looked like the chin gun was rotating, however. Nothing else was moving, it seemed.

[Furball]

guns are overmodelled and the gun positions should be far more vunerable.

as for the video, there are also cases of bombers being brought down by single rounds.  you cannot argue 1 incident to be the norm.

[whels]

the 1 thing the irks me the most is th AI warp into  position after u kill the lead buff.  i die to this more then buff guns.  

ths instant warp into position collision needs fixing.

[Urchin]

It does kinda look like someone bailed there, early in the clip.  

I think the gunners are WAY to tough, personally.  The structure I don't really know... sometimes it seems to tough , sometimes to weak.

[DoKGonZo]

I think buffs seem too tough sometimes due to rubber bullets.


Adding a special fuel burn multiplier would only really change the range, not the dynamic (you'd still have people diving their B17's to gain speed). I'd say maybe do something with changing the engine overheating model, so you couldn't run flat out in heavies all the time. But people would just game that and firewall the engines when they came under fire, and then throttle back afer.


Which leaves the gunners. And here is where the biggest leap of modelling really occurs. The way a formation of heavies is modelled now, every gunner on three different planes - with WW2 era comm's and no IFF -  is coordinating fire on one target with near-perfect telemetry. Riiiiiight. It ain't the per-gun lethality - its this level of coordination which is nuts. Gunner stations not on the lead ship at the very least shouldn't be as coordinated.

[Morpheus]

EVERYTHING about buffs in AH is overmodeled. The bomb site out of an F117 and Lazer gunners from starwars.

Stop lying.

[TalonX]

Well, that looks about how I look attacking buffs...with one exception, I disappear after about 10 seconds sitting on the 6 of a buff.....

These are good arguments,  but how realistic is it for a fighter to shoot down a formation of 3 buffs?   Happens all the time in AH.

[Hoarach]

Buff guns are way overmodeled.  Being able to fire constantly without any stoppage and the distance of their guns.  

Same here whels, that drone popping in front really gets on my nerve.  Lose many 262s to that cause I would go after the lead then drone would pop and if dont go after lead they can keep firing at you when you kill it.  Happened to me last night, dove straight from direct top of a buff made it go pop and the drone behind it collided with me and I died.

[LePaul]

Isnt it funny how those that cant shoot em down via decent tactics are the first to whine?  Waaah guns, waah too fast, waah too hard to shoot down....etc etc

I do agree that the AI warp after a buff is killed sux