Author Topic: omg! Is this a real Ki84 skin?? (Read 1434 times)

FDutchmn · « **Reply #15 on:** April 28, 2006, 12:20:13 AM »

Ever since this topic has been brought up again, I have been surfing the web to seek answers to some of the questions that has been brought up on this thread...

First of all... yes, they did load bombs on kamikaze planes. Explosives were necessary to maximize the effect.

Secondly, while surfing for information on this plane, I did hit some websites with very very right views, although I myself may be too sensitive about it. I wish not that your work or AH would be associated with them(just saying).

Thirdly, Corporal Megumu Takano did exist. Records show that he died in a Ki-84 Type Four Fighter off of Okinawa on May 25, 1945 in a special attack mission on Allied ships. Other than that, I cannot seem to locate any information on Corporal Takano on the web.

As for historical accuracy of the camouflage, I can only find information in the form of decals for plastic models. I do have to ask whether whoever got this information had it right in the first place. There was a case of a plastic model manufacturer placing a clover leaf on the side of a Ki-61 when this clover leaf was thought to be placed after the war, or so it is claimed.

It was also the case that Japan lacked material so much that on the N1K2-J, the red sun lacked the white ring around it, plainly because there was no paint to go around.

Although these in itself are circumstancial, I find this camouflage a little bit too flashy given that it was near the end of the war, let alone would a pilot who knows that he is going to die, color his plane in such a fashion...

I will try to stop by the local library and see if I can come up with more information...

FDutchmn · « **Reply #16 on:** April 28, 2006, 05:28:01 AM »

I forgot to post the url where I got some of the information from...

If you have Japanese fonts, you should be able to view them.

http://www5b.biglobe.ne.jp/~s244f/shinbutai_hensei-top.htm
http://www5b.biglobe.ne.jp/~s244f/shinbutai_hensei-032.htm
http://sidenkai21.cocot.jp/m128.html

Krusty · « **Reply #17 on:** April 28, 2006, 01:36:23 PM »

The model(s) that I've seen built have almost black colors, but I think it's supposed to be a dark Japanese green. I know there was an issue with a recent C47 skin where the green came across as too dark. What shade of green was that?

I've not begun work on this yet. I'm finishing a pair of P47Ns first. I am, however, gathering info.

EDIT: I have no japanese fonts, those pages are all gibberish to me. I tried babelfish.altavista.com but it runs into errors when translating from japanese to english.

Vudak · « **Reply #18 on:** April 30, 2006, 11:17:20 PM »

I think it's a pretty cool looking skin... As far as being "distasteful"... To whom, I wonder? Not trying to be a jerk there I just don't understand why someone would get that upset about it, considering this is a game and all.

I thought the whole problem with the swastika was that Germany would not allow the game to be sold there/it would be illegal, etc. Unless there's a similar law against it in Japan (no clue if there is), I don't see any reason why HTC shouldn't allow it...

Furball · « **Reply #19 on:** May 01, 2006, 04:42:49 AM »

rather than being distasteful, it would be better to look at it as a tribute to the person that flew the aircraft. if that was his actual paint scheme, imagine the pride he would have had seeing it on the flight line, the time spent doing the paint scheme.

FDutchmn · « **Reply #20 on:** May 01, 2006, 08:02:07 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Furball
rather than being distasteful, it would be better to look at it as a tribute to the person that flew the aircraft. if that was his actual paint scheme, imagine the pride he would have had seeing it on the flight line, the time spent doing the paint scheme.

Furball, that is the exact reason the right wing people here would say.

Vudak · « **Reply #21 on:** May 01, 2006, 12:55:14 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by FDutchmn
Furball, that is the exact reason the right wing people here would say.

I'm not sure I'm following this statement. I notice you are from Japan though. Not to pick on you, but do you find it distasteful/bad/whatever, and if so, why?

I'm just trying to understand here...

FDutchmn · « **Reply #22 on:** May 01, 2006, 06:36:18 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Vudak
I'm not sure I'm following this statement. I notice you are from Japan though. Not to pick on you, but do you find it distasteful/bad/whatever, and if so, why?

I'm just trying to understand here...

Thanks, Vudak. Please refer to this thread for earlier discussion on this topic => Woah! look at this ki84!

If you want to talk about history, fair enough. If you want to talk about pride, then I would watch myself. I don't understand... you are talking about promoting the ideals of the fanatics that your veterans have fought against. Why? Just think of the reasons why there exists a law against the usage of the Swastiska. It is the same analogy there, except without the law. The existence of the law is just a difference in approach of handling things in different cultural settings.

But then again this is all just me. Does all this mean anything for HTC? I can't say... So, let's ask Mr. Market on what is available in the shops in Japan for games with regards to Kamikaze. Do I see any games with planes with Kamikaze markings on it? Nope. And why not? You can figure it out...

If tribute is the objective, then I, too, would think that Corporal Takano would be most honored. However, that can only be done with the full understanding of what he had gone through. How this is achieved is up to the author of the skin.

Krusty · « **Reply #23 on:** May 01, 2006, 06:54:00 PM »

Tribute is not the intent. Providing AH pilots with a colorful and unique skin to fly with is.

Too much over-analyzing.

FDutchmn · « **Reply #24 on:** May 02, 2006, 01:48:43 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Krusty
Tribute is not the intent. Providing AH pilots with a colorful and unique skin to fly with is.

Too much over-analyzing.

If this is the only reason, then I'd rather that you work on other skins, as there are so many others to go around. There is no reason for you to work on this one specifically, is there?

Think of it this way... a while ago, there were toys portraying 911, especifically, one with two buildings and a plane like figure swivelling between them. This was confiscated by the US authorities when concerned parents notified them of it. Was the toy in Poor taste? I think it was bad.

I am not saying that you can't work on it, I have no authority to do so. However, because we are dealing with history, I am asking you to please understand what it meant and use it with the full knowledge of what it was. Is this fair enough?

Krusty · « **Reply #25 on:** May 02, 2006, 11:37:32 AM »

I like the Ki84, but there is (so far) only really 1 skin I will ever fly it with. The other skins, while well-made, don't appeal to me at all. Visually, this red arrow scheme is attactive, and I know I would like it while flying.

The reason I want to skin it is that there aren't any Ki84 skins I love and this might be one.

As for the politics of it -- I realize this is sensitive for you. However, we also have to realize this is just a game. This isn't real life. This isn't practice for real life. I fly skins on 190s that belonged to specific pilots. That doesn't mean I idolize them, know anything about them (other than their name), or want to be like them. That doesn't mean I'm a nazi sympathizer. That doesn't mean I don't still have my own system of beliefs.

I thought about most of this when I heard the skin was kamikaze. Fact of the matter is, 95% of the people that see this skin will not think about the kamikaze aspect. They will see it as it is -- another skin. The 5% that might consider it repugnant or glorious (those against and for kamikaze as a phenomenon) -- they already have their own behavior patterns, their own beliefs, and we won't affect them.

Sorry for my little aside here. I honestly think most folks already are "set" in their pattern. I do believe people can change, but I do not believe this game can make them change. Any skin in this game is a drop in the ocean. It's inconsequential to society. It's already a WW2 flight sim. It already has aircraft that were flown in suicide missions. We are not recreating the circumstances of the war, just the aircraft. In that vein, this paint scheme was used and I would like to skin it. I have some other projects to finish first, so I've not begun work, but I would like to see it.

There are just so few decent Ki skins.

straffo · « **Reply #26 on:** May 02, 2006, 02:23:31 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by FDutchmn
Thanks, Vudak. Please refer to this thread for earlier discussion on this topic => Woah! look at this ki84!

I've reread this thread , and just wanted to point it was not my intent to be rude to you or your nation.

I was trying to be factual but after reading it again I may have sounded more rude than I wanted, if you were offensed by posts ,please accept my apologies.

FDutchmn · « **Reply #27 on:** May 02, 2006, 05:29:41 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Krusty
I fly skins on 190s that belonged to specific pilots. That doesn't mean I idolize them, know anything about them (other than their name), or want to be like them. That doesn't mean I'm a nazi sympathizer.

My apologies Krusty. I certainly didn't mean to even imply that you are. Again, my apologies.

Quote

Originally posted by Krusty
I thought about most of this when I heard the skin was kamikaze. Fact of the matter is, 95% of the people that see this skin will not think about the kamikaze aspect. They will see it as it is -- another skin.

yeah, I agree... but this is precisely the issue...

Quote

Originally posted by Krusty
Sorry for my little aside here. I honestly think most folks already are "set" in their pattern. I do believe people can change, but I do not believe this game can make them change. Any skin in this game is a drop in the ocean. It's inconsequential to society.

you guys go to AH con, right? You do that because you want to meet the guy on the other side of the screen. I do that too. Whenever I have a business trip abroad, I make it to a point to try and drop by the people that I know. It's a good exchange... and if I spot something that is Japanese that is out of place, like if a lady is wearing the ribbon on the kimono wrong or if they had hung the calligraphy upside down, I will let them know. This is just an extension of that for me.

Quote

Originally posted by Krusty
... In that vein, this paint scheme was used and I would like to skin it. I have some other projects to finish first, so I've not begun work, but I would like to see it.

There are just so few decent Ki skins.

Like I said, if you really want to, you can just go ahead and do it. However, a full description of it would very much be appreciated.

FDutchmn · « **Reply #28 on:** May 02, 2006, 05:33:50 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by straffo
I've reread this thread , and just wanted to point it was not my intent to be rude to you or your nation.

I was trying to be factual but after reading it again I may have sounded more rude than I wanted, if you were offensed by posts ,please accept my apologies.

none taken straffo, and thank you for being considerate. I cannot ask for more. It is good for me to know how things are viewed from other points of view.

Krusty · « **Reply #29 on:** May 02, 2006, 07:04:37 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by FDutchmn
My apologies Krusty. I certainly didn't mean to even imply that you are. Again, my apologies.

Not at all! I was simply illustrating the point. No offense taken or even hinted at.

I can (and will) explain the situation if/when I submit the skin, but did you have anything else in mind when you said "a full description of it"?