Author Topic: I'm tired of US helos crashing in every conflict...  (Read 1617 times)

Offline Wobble

  • Copper Member
  • **
  • Posts: 140
      • http://compservices.netfirms.com
I'm tired of US helos crashing in every conflict...
« Reply #30 on: October 21, 2001, 03:06:00 PM »
the way I see it, If you own the air above the battlefield, the safest place to be on the ground is in a Modern Battle Tank.. ft the other guy owns the air above the battlefield.. the LAST place you want to be is sitting in a Tank.

Depending on who has the supreme air power, a Tank can either be a massive weapon or destruction capable of decimating enemies a great range.. or a giant bullseye.

[ 10-21-2001: Message edited by: Wobble ]

Offline Raubvogel

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3882
I'm tired of US helos crashing in every conflict...
« Reply #31 on: October 21, 2001, 05:56:00 PM »
Animal...that crash was probably pilot error, but sometimes toejam happens. Brownouts and whiteouts are very tough conditions to function in. In snow or dust, the rotor blades can kick up a blanket of crap that totally obscures your vision and it's very disorienting. These are actually a major focus of Army aviation training, because they cause many accidents and some deaths every year. I've been in brownouts in Desert Storm and a few whiteouts flying in the mountains in Washington. If you're taking off it's not too bad, but on final it can be very dangerous...especially in a Blackhawk because they flare so nose high. Probably doesn't make you feel any better about it, but I hope it explains that toejam like that happens every year, not just in conflicts.

Offline Thrawn

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6972
I'm tired of US helos crashing in every conflict...
« Reply #32 on: October 22, 2001, 03:09:00 AM »
Are you asking for a anti-crashing stick (tm), or better training.  I imagine that the US army helo pilots are pretty well trained.  But, toejam happens.  No disrespect but planes and helos crash...for many reasons.  And you can't account for all the variables.  You train the pilots as best you can.  You maintain the aircraft as best you can and that is all you can do.  The rest is very sad happenstance.

Offline takeda

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 514
I'm tired of US helos crashing in every conflict...
« Reply #33 on: October 22, 2001, 06:43:00 AM »
In a related story, the wreckage the taliban are claiming is from a downed chopper looks like could be from a CH-47. It's made by Boeing as some pieces read, and those big undercarriage wheels seem similar to those on the Chinook.

The army special forces use the CH-47E version of that helo

Offline Wobble

  • Copper Member
  • **
  • Posts: 140
      • http://compservices.netfirms.com
I'm tired of US helos crashing in every conflict...
« Reply #34 on: October 22, 2001, 02:11:00 PM »
yet its interesting that they make no effort to show of the dead bodies or the crash site or anything, all they have are some chunks of metal and a wheel... seems a bit fishy

Offline miko2d

  • Parolee
  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3177
I'm tired of US helos crashing in every conflict...
« Reply #35 on: October 23, 2001, 10:37:00 AM »
Sometimes I wonder if all the education certain people have is from television.

 1. In real life accidents happen all the time, especially in the military. In fact, during the Gulf War fewer people were lost to accidents and casualties then the same number troops would have lost to accidents during peacetime operations - mostly because soldiers were more alert.
 If not for the lucku Scud hit, a huge majority of the Gulf war casualties would have been accidents and friendly fire.

 2. For those 2-billion dollar B2 planes to be effective (otherwise why spend all that money) they have to be flown every week. If they are doing that anyway, they might as well go to Afghanistan and drop a few bombs on the way.

 miko

Offline Udie

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3395
I'm tired of US helos crashing in every conflict...
« Reply #36 on: October 23, 2001, 11:25:00 AM »
My roommate and I looked at pictures of blackhawks on the net last night.  We saw the taliban with the wheels yesterday on the news.  The wheels they ahd looked like a strut with 2 wheels on either side of the shaft.  In all the blackhawk pictures we saw the blackhawks had a strut with only ONE wheel.

 I don't think they shot one down. I could be wrong, but I believe the pentagon on this one...

Offline Tumor

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4294
      • Wait For It
I'm tired of US helos crashing in every conflict...
« Reply #37 on: October 24, 2001, 02:47:00 AM »
Just watched a briefing broadcast on cspan.  Apparently a Chinook rubbed a wall or something and knocked a wheel off.  The Blackhawk went down in Pakistan...no details about why.  

Tumor
"Dogfighting is useless"  :Erich Hartmann

Offline dracken1

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 841
I'm tired of US helos crashing in every conflict...
« Reply #38 on: October 24, 2001, 05:12:00 AM »
wars are fought by politians,service men and women are just one of the tools used in that war.yes f117's, b1's,are a big dollar tool and they do the job they where designed to do and do it well.but i think in some cases these stealth aircraft are used for another reason.you say that b52's and conventional attack aircraft could do the same job and you maybe right.but i wonder how the american public would feel about a large chunk of they taxes going to pay for this stealth technology and along comes a flight of virtually antique b52's and desimates the whole of afganistan.i think maybe these mega buck planes are used on times to justify thier cost and to assure that the budget keeps flowing for even more expensive and sophisticated technology.as for the helicopter crashes the ones that stick in my mind were the apache crashes in bosnia what was said on the news here in the uk,was that a statement was issued saying that the aircrew were not used to training in that terrain.yet the terrain seemed ideal helicopter country,pop up over the hill tops acquire tgt kill.it made it sound like apache crew practise at the salt flats.but there is always one thing to keep in mind with any war, never underestimate your enemy we see that even in this game we play but we only pay for our mistake with a little damaged pride.atitudes vary across the globe most british people think the americans a strange race and i'm sure americans feel the sme about us.the taliban don't view life the same way as most western races.vietnam was bombed by conventionalweapons,napalm,poisons etc but still did'nt go under.
a political decision was made and that was an end to that and the longer this conflict goes on the will tend to change.
  on the day of the trade centres incident i think it was a senator holbrooke said that these terrorists must be hunted down and punished and any country harbouring them being just as guilty as the terrorists themselves.this was said without taking into account that for years the ira who have been bombing innocent people in ireland and the uk
had been made welcome in the usa,a fellow nato country who also supplied money to them.a couple of days later your president with this in mind stated that."from this day forward we wont tollerate etc etc".politians again let them fight the dam wars and there more than likely would'nt be any.britain is paying 500.000 gbp for every missle fired yet a man down the road from me has died from cancer because he's had to wait 2 years for an operation due to lack of money and then it was to late.now that makes no sence.
to end i'd like to sympathise with all those who lost someone,family or friend in the trade centre and pentagon attacks.

Offline Zigrat

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 792
I'm tired of US helos crashing in every conflict...
« Reply #39 on: October 24, 2001, 04:08:00 PM »
i read this late and not everything in it

1) in the development of a weapons system cost vs life is considered. in the case of the jsf, my school did a study about whether it should have 1 engine or 2. having 2 engines would make each plane cost $5 million more but would save an estimated 20 lives over the life of the program. the cost won out in favor of the benefit.

2) i am pretty sure the b2 lines are long long shut down. if the tooling has been destroyed it would cost a fekload to start up production again.

Offline Raubvogel

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3882
I'm tired of US helos crashing in every conflict...
« Reply #40 on: October 24, 2001, 05:37:00 PM »
My first flight in Saudi Arabia for Desert Shield, we had to fly our aircraft from the port to our camp. It was around dusk, visibilty was crap and we clipped a low hill. Ripped the skids right off the Huey...we had to radio ahead and have them build a pedestal of sandbags for us to land on. toejam happens. Those wheels were Chinook wheels and I'd bet the same thing happened.