Author Topic: Do scores affect gameplay? Do captures interfere with fun? (Read 5121 times)

mars01 · « **Reply #105 on:** May 12, 2006, 01:20:24 PM »

DOK you are putting words into my mouth. If I'd rather fight a person for a six shot why would you think I HO. LOLH

Three on one odds are in your favor if you have the alt. Bouncing, what is that LOLH.

But anyway you digress, as I said in my first post, if you like fighting people that have no clue that you are there, then go for it, it's your 15 bucks and their poor SA. But don't argue that you need some uber skills to do it LOLH.

DoKGonZo · « **Reply #106 on:** May 12, 2006, 01:25:55 PM »

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Originally posted by mars01
DOK you are putting words into my mouth. If I'd rather fight a person for a six shot why would you think I HO. LOLH
...

My bad ... I actually had a line in there saying that I knew you didn't play that way but deleted it by accident. I'm also editing my blog and some PHP code at the same time here so sometimes my editorial SA misses a beat.

Boxboy · « **Reply #107 on:** May 12, 2006, 02:52:33 PM »

Blah this whole thread is silly, first off MOST kills in this game come from gangbanging OR being gangbanged.

Score is effected by discos' and therefore can be "connectivity" related no matter how you fly.

As for the rediculous chest pounding being done in this thread it is just a riot, how can you tell wheather the other guy is PW, out of ammo, or has wife ack in the background???? Maybe he is running for one of those reasons and not just to avoid a fight.

One guy flies in AH for the arcade value and another flies for the WWII "experience" while still others are looking for some "other" value.
Who am I to determine who is right and who is wrong??

Brenjen · « **Reply #108 on:** May 12, 2006, 07:07:44 PM »

The end point is, every one of us plays this game for the "thrill" or "rush" of doing the individual thing we like to do. My rush is blowing some other sap into a million smoking bits & I don't care how I did it. I like to win & I hate to lose, Playing this game has forced me to deal with losing out of nessecity but I don't enjoy it.

If we were to vote on our favorite style of play; I would have to say mine is low & turning with the sides being close to equal so everyone is busy & I have a fair chance to blow someone out of the sky. Killing another thinking person; even if it's a virtual fight, gives me a thrill that besting an A.I. doesn't.

So I am a G.V, J.A.B.O. & furball enjoyer who thinks everyone should do what gets their individual rocks off....yes, I'm a freak.

lazs2 · « **Reply #109 on:** May 13, 2006, 09:03:53 AM »

all that is well and good but no matter how you look at it.....

We have lots of planes to choose from. They turn at different rates and climb and accelerate at different rates. You are not expected to try to make your plane compete where it is not good... not much anyway but..

How do you expalin choosing the fastest planes and then only "sneaking up" on slower better turning planes. it would seem that if you have the patience to wait for just the right moment and to climb to where you are "safe" and to allways keep up your speed then....

you are fooling yourself saying that there is nothing gamey about choosing the fastest planes and then only attacking low slow planes that are assleep or in engaged...or... taking a few risk free B & Z runs at em..

If you really were say, a fan of a certain aircraft that also happened to be uber by some coincidence.... you would spend the time looking for other cherry picking guys in fast late war planes like yourself and turn with em.

Use the like performance to fight each other like the earlier guys are doing on the deck... when you join the furball and B & Z it.... you don't have much of a case... you are gaming the game in my opinion... might as well be in a horde.

you say that is not what you are doing but you seem only willing to climb and be bored with waiting only if it will result in the risk free kill of a slower plane.

lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's

DoKGonZo · « **Reply #110 on:** May 13, 2006, 10:48:20 AM »

High speed attacks on opponents who didn't see them coming *was* how air combat was fought in WW2. To call it "gamey" to replicate the tactics and techniques that were actually used in WW2 in a WW2 air combat sim is idiotic.

To likewise equate a proper bounce of an unengaged enemy plane with cherry picking said plane by using an unknowing team-mate as bait is just as inane.

If you want to say that sneaking up on someone doesn't require the same plane-handling skills as a 90mph furball, sure, who'd argue. But to imply that that is somehow cheating ("gaming the game") is insulting.

It's really a shame that so many of the people with knowledge of this game are more interested in their personal agendas than in the game as a whole.

LEDPIG · « **Reply #111 on:** May 13, 2006, 11:07:22 AM »

Lasz2 and Mars01 have you been Boom and Zoomed at some point. Anyway i don't see anything wrong with any of it. Ho's BnZ,E fighting Turn fighting, Sneaking up and killing me, running, do whatever you have to do, the only person's fault it is is mine for not paying attention or whatever, so stop saying people should fight you and give you their prettythang on a silver platter just the way you like, they don't have to do anything but pay taxes and die. Iv'e been picked many times and never complained about it, Ho'd all the time, i don't know why they complain about that, hey the other guy got a shot he got me, so what, good job man, maybe if i had fired it be the other way around. They sound like one of those pilots's that gets picked and starts complaining hey bring your B-52 down here and turn fight me on my terms and give it to me just how i like it, yea right! The Bnz'ers complain about the Turn n Burner's and the TnB'ers complain about the Bnz'ers and we all need to take a chill pill, i'll take one with you, and just say it's a game, whatever you want to do is whatever you want to do, it's all good.

LEDPIG · « **Reply #112 on:** May 13, 2006, 11:10:36 AM »

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Originally posted by DoKGonZo
High speed attacks on opponents who didn't see them coming *was* how air combat was fought in WW2. To call it "gamey" to replicate the tactics and techniques that were actually used in WW2 in a WW2 air combat sim is idiotic.

To likewise equate a proper bounce of an unengaged enemy plane with cherry picking said plane by using an unknowing team-mate as bait is just as inane.

If you want to say that sneaking up on someone doesn't require the same plane-handling skills as a 90mph furball, sure, who'd argue. But to imply that that is somehow cheating ("gaming the game") is insulting.

It's really a shame that so many of the people with knowledge of this game are more interested in their personal agendas than in the game as a whole.

Bravo:aok

lazs2 · « **Reply #113 on:** May 13, 2006, 11:27:15 AM »

doc... sorry you are insulted but.... It is the truth... you admit that there is little skill and that you are simply picking a plane and method that takes the least skill to get a kill in.... you are using a game element against people who wish to fight each other on much more even terms.... you are gaming the game.

your fall back arguement to history and "realism" is pretty weak too as.... mars and others have pointed out.... this is not war but a game... it is not even a simulation of war. We are using WWII planes but no where in WWII did spits fight spits or pee 51's fight lalas or spits or p47's

If you use your thphie or peee 51 to B & Z some spit 5 or p40 or f4f you are not acting "realisticaly" or "historicaly" except in the broadest sense.... you are simply gaming the game.

Other games have tried to put out more realistic plane sets and failed because far more people want to game the game than act "historicaly" or "realisticaly"

If you don't want people calling you on it then you have an option.... don't do it. but don't come up with lame excuses for why you do....it is just.... pathetic.

lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's

DoKGonZo · « **Reply #114 on:** May 13, 2006, 02:37:49 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by lazs2
doc... sorry you are insulted but.... It is the truth... you admit that there is little skill and that you are simply picking a plane and method that takes the least skill to get a kill in ...

Y'know, if there's one thing I hate almost as much as hypocrites is people who say I said things I didn't.

What I said was: "If you want to say that sneaking up on someone doesn't require the same plane-handling skills as a 90mph furball, sure, who'd argue."

I never said "little skill" or "least skill" ... just that it doesn't require the same level of low speed plane handling technique that your furball does. I never "admitted" anything either; I stated a fact that is obvious to anyone. Changing the words I wrote to support your case makes you look like ... well ... a liar.

The "insult" was to the intelligence of people who read this BBS. On many levels. Not the least of which is the selfish logic of your position. And it's easy to demonstrate: How much "skill" does it take to out-turn and then shoot down a Fw190 in a Spit? Basically none. So do you chastise people for doing so? Of course not.

In other words - you want everyone to play your way as long as you benefit and anyone who ain't is doing it wrong, etc. Each technique requires its own kind of skill - even if that skill is something called patience.

Note that things like HO'n'Go, ramming, porking, cherry-picking, etc. aren't what I would call "technique" - those *are* "gaming the game" because they are totally and completely a response *to* the game itself.

The MA needs a lot of things fixed. A lot. But the merits of BnZ vs. TnB ain't even close to what those problems are; as much as some people would like to make it appear so.

mars01 · « **Reply #115 on:** May 13, 2006, 04:47:00 PM »

Led you are such a noob lol,

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Ho'd all the time, i don't know why they complain about that, hey the other guy got a shot he got me, so what, good job man, maybe if i had fired it be the other way around.

It's the fight newby! Two guys working to get control of a fight and gain the upper hand, the fight! Thats what Laz, myself and many others are here for. Not to just run up and shoot some guy in the face. Do nothing but that for the next three months. If you don't have a face shot fly by. Then tell me how much fun your having. Cherry picking people that are already engaged with 2 or 3 of your guys and shooting people that are AFK is not fighting.

Tis has nothing to do with any of us getting killed or dying. This is just a discussion on the merrits of flying styles. LOLH

The rest of you are all missing the point. Yeah BnZ is fun, who doesn't like to once and while saddle up start shooting fish in a barrel. F4u4 is the best plane for it, it has so many things going for it in that mode.

But as laz said, It's looking for that guy that actually wants to fight up there that I find more fun than easy picks. You can always tell the cherry only guys, because as soon as they see you starting to engage them, they dive into the cherry tree.

IMO you want to boil this whole thing down, Fight. People who fight and lay it on the line like everyone else are the ones that make this game fun for everyone, including themselves.

There is no shame in dying or getting shot down, only shame in not fighting.

At the end of the day were all here to fight in these planes. We don't care how you fly, just put up a fight and lay it on the line. When you're playing it safe your not laying anything on the line and most boring to fight.

Also LedPig, to say we are looking for people to hand out their six is rediculous at best and proves you don't get the whole picture.

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It's really a shame that so many of the people with knowledge of this game are more interested in their personal agendas than in the game as a whole.

And what is our agenda? Please do tell. If you think I have one then I guess I should. LOL. So please let me know what our agenda is.

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How much "skill" does it take to out-turn and then shoot down a Fw190 in a Spit?

Laz can't answer this because all he flies is an FM2 and to be honest with you most spit guys aren't looking for 190s to fight. On the otherhand a BnZ guy is looking for any unsuspecting foe. Do you know how boring most spit vs 190 fights are for most spit drivers. Most spit drivers are looking for other spits and a challenging fight. I know there are the maroons that BnZ in spits, and other than the 14 drivers they are retards.

Quote

Originally Posted By:Doc
High speed attacks on opponents who didn't see them coming *was* how air combat was fought in WW2. To call it "gamey" to replicate the tactics and techniques that were actually used in WW2 in a WW2 air combat sim is idiotic.

Quote

Originally Posted By:Laz
We are using WWII planes but no where in WWII did spits fight spits or pee 51's fight lalas or spits or p47's
If you use your thphie or peee 51 to B & Z some spit 5 or p40 or f4f you are not acting "realisticaly" or "historicaly" except in the broadest sense.... you are simply gaming the game.

Quote

Originally Posted By:Doc
In other words - you want everyone to play your way as long as you benefit and anyone who ain't is doing it wrong, etc. Each technique requires its own kind of skill - even if that skill is something called patience.

Note that things like HO'n'Go, ramming, porking, cherry-picking, etc. aren't what I would call "technique" - those *are* "gaming the game" because they are totally and completely a response *to* the game itself.

So why would you twist Laz's words around when if you read his posts it is obvious he is talking about all the things you put in your NOTE portion, so in essence you are agreeing with him.

Quote

Originally Posted By:Doc
Y'know, if there's one thing I hate almost as much as hypocrites is people who say I said things I didn't.

So now go hate yourself for twisting Laz's reply into what you wanted it to be.

Quote

Originally Posted By:Doc
In other words - you want everyone to play your way as long as you benefit and anyone who ain't is doing it wrong, etc. Each technique requires its own kind of skill - even if that skill is something called patience.

BTW - I'm not picking on you Doc.

DaPup · « **Reply #116 on:** May 13, 2006, 06:26:49 PM »

Scoring will only affect gameplay for those that are concerned with their score. I have played the rank game before and had a great time for the month and I have played a month rarely landing and had a blast also.

The whole pay my money and you can dictate how I play thing works both ways. The MA isn't like it used to be, but what about the people that actually like staying out of a 1k fray? Some people will never like how other people play, but who gives a crap...I sure don't. Alot of the players in the "furball" suck anyway and it becomes who can pull on the stick the hardest or how many can we get on their six...not alot of skill needed for that.

HTC saw fit to put in a capture and score system so obviously the people who like it either outnumber or are more important than the many players who don't like the system. The game offers a score so why not try to get a good one if you like. If you like flying above the fray and that makes you happy then don't listen to anyone else telling you that you should listen to their wisdom and come down and play.....it's still your free time and money.

DoKGonZo · « **Reply #117 on:** May 13, 2006, 08:08:21 PM »

No, Mars, Laz berates the general use of BnZ planes vs. TnB planes in the lines you cite. That's not anywhere close to the same as calling out cherry-picking in particular and you know it. Maybe Laz's intent was different, or maybe that's how you read it, but that's not what he said.

Further, to say that just because P51's didn't fight Spitfires means that using the plane (P51) in the manner it was intended against a better-turning opponent is ahistorical is such an obviously shallow argument that I'm really surprised you're using it.

Next, you say that

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Most spit drivers are looking for other spits and a challenging fight.

Say what?

My agenda is to see overall gameplay improve ... not just one aspect of it. The BnZ v. TnB balance is one of the least out of balance things in that regard. If you fly a 190/51/47 you need to have more discipline because you can get out-turned. If you fly a Spit/Zeke/FM2 you can get down and dirty but you have to be aware that a zoomer may catch you unawares. That's the way it's supposed to be. There's equal room for both styles without being untrue to history or letting one side of the fence have "all the marbles."

What's wrecking the quality of fights, at least based on what I see, is overuse of HO's and ramming, reliance on The Horde or vultching to pad one's score (see original topic of this thread), and the Griefer Nation.

Urchin · « **Reply #118 on:** May 13, 2006, 08:45:14 PM »

The only thing that kinda irritates me about the Bore n Zoom guys (the ones that aren't noob jousters, that is) is they keep trying to come back.

I know you know the type.

I'll be putzing around in one of my crap planes, and some D-9 or P-51 will come in from 5k higher than me, *****footing around.. he makes a halfass pass, I bank and he zooms... repeat a couple times.

At this point I just want him to GO AWAY. It should be obvious I know you are there and you can't "sneak up on me". Go find some OTHER unsuspecting target, and leave me the hell alone.

Dodging lame halfass BnZ passes for 10-15 minutes is marginally less fun than spitting on an ant just to watch it wiggle around trying to get out.

Those guys irritate me. It is like their plan is to either run me out of gas, or wait till I fall asleep, then pounce.

It sucks.

Booz · « **Reply #119 on:** May 13, 2006, 10:09:53 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by mars01
There is no shame in dying or getting shot down, only shame in not fighting.

Says you. But you're wrong. There's no shame in keeping your plane alive, only shame in diving in without a plan and expire like a dweeb. I'm not willing to give AH up to the arcade boys.

btw what does LOLH mean? You seem to use it a lot.