Author Topic: Atheism and the USA, followup  (Read 10527 times)

Offline moot

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Atheism and the USA, followup
« Reply #300 on: May 23, 2006, 10:05:30 AM »
Holden, I'll be impressed if you manage to make that particular point understood..
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Offline Chairboy

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Atheism and the USA, followup
« Reply #301 on: May 23, 2006, 10:10:22 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Toad
hy·poc·ri·sy

(hĭ-pŏk'rĭ-sç)

n., pl. -sies.

The practice of professing beliefs, feelings, or virtues that one does not hold or possess; falseness.

An act or instance of such falseness.
That's the definition as I understand it too.  So, Lazs, Bronk, where's my hypocracy?  What belief/feeling/virtues have I professed that I don't possess?  What lie?
"When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis

Offline Toad

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Atheism and the USA, followup
« Reply #302 on: May 23, 2006, 10:15:38 AM »
Don't make the schoolmarm get out the ruler to slap your wittle wrists!!!


hy ·  poc  ·r     i[/u]       ·sy
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline indy007

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Atheism and the USA, followup
« Reply #303 on: May 23, 2006, 10:26:43 AM »
Mmm, I gotta disagree a bit on that Bronk. Most athiests I've met tend to believe pretty firmly in science and mathematics.

It's the entire idea of "burden of proof". If you believe in an idea, prove it. It's that simple. You can prove n+1=3 therfore n=2. You can prove neo-darwinism by looking at fossils, genetics, iteration studies, or macroevolution in process (hawthorn fly). In fact, there's even a computer software suite that designs objects by generating hundreds of permutations, tests them, and mashes the best traits together with code-based natural selection. Creates a new generation based on that and repeats. The nickname for it is the "idea machine". It's faster, more effecient, and gets better results than human engineers. It holds 3 patents.

If you choose to have faith in something, more power to you. I'm a skeptic at heart. I simply want information to be provable in repeated experimentation & peer review. Then, it becomes more than faith, more than an idea... it's fact. If you want to say, well, God invented natural selection. Okay, maybe he did, maybe he didn't. It's up to you to prove that he did, in a fashion repeatable by others.

Offline Chairboy

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Atheism and the USA, followup
« Reply #304 on: May 23, 2006, 10:26:49 AM »
hukd on fonics werked fur me.
"When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis

Offline Toad

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Atheism and the USA, followup
« Reply #305 on: May 23, 2006, 10:28:07 AM »
Ah kin cee dat; it hepped me 2. ;)
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline Bronk

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Atheism and the USA, followup
« Reply #306 on: May 23, 2006, 10:43:35 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Chairboy
That's the definition as I understand it too.  So, Lazs, Bronk, where's my hypocracy?  What belief/feeling/virtues have I professed that I don't possess?  What lie?


You profess that you have the correct answer.
You can't prove that it is the correct answer.
I never said you lied.

You profess your belief is the correct answer while you do not posses THE correct answer.
Hypocrisy :D

Technically then both sides are hypocritical. Because neither can prove or disprove .

Personally I have no idea if there is or isn't a supreme being.

Bronk


Also this is going by the definiton of atheist and if you are one.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2006, 10:51:20 AM by Bronk »
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Offline moot

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Atheism and the USA, followup
« Reply #307 on: May 23, 2006, 10:43:38 AM »
Indy, that's not sufficient.  Those people could simply have faith, "believe" in science.
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Offline Chairboy

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« Reply #308 on: May 23, 2006, 10:53:19 AM »
Bronk, I guess you didn't read my atheist/agnostic definition above.  I state exactly why you're mistaken, I'm not asserting to _know_ anything.  Atheist agnostic, remember?  So, try again.
"When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis

Offline lukster

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Atheism and the USA, followup
« Reply #309 on: May 23, 2006, 10:56:38 AM »
Here's an interesting take on theism: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theism

Looks like you might fall into the weak athiest category by profession Chairboy, not so sure about practice though.

Offline Bronk

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Atheism and the USA, followup
« Reply #310 on: May 23, 2006, 10:59:11 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by indy007
Mmm, I gotta disagree a bit on that Bronk. Most athiests I've met tend to believe pretty firmly in science and mathematics.

It's the entire idea of "burden of proof". If you believe in an idea, prove it. It's that simple. You can prove n+1=3 therfore n=2. You can prove neo-darwinism by looking at fossils, genetics, iteration studies, or macroevolution in process (hawthorn fly). In fact, there's even a computer software suite that designs objects by generating hundreds of permutations, tests them, and mashes the best traits together with code-based natural selection. Creates a new generation based on that and repeats. The nickname for it is the "idea machine". It's faster, more effecient, and gets better results than human engineers. It holds 3 patents.

If you choose to have faith in something, more power to you. I'm a skeptic at heart. I simply want information to be provable in repeated experimentation & peer review. Then, it becomes more than faith, more than an idea... it's fact. If you want to say, well, God invented natural selection. Okay, maybe he did, maybe he didn't. It's up to you to prove that he did, in a fashion repeatable by others.



Lemme shorten it for you.. prove it one way or the other.
You can't, you say I have to prove it I say disprove it.
Now we can all stand around pointing fingers.
I don't know if there is or isn't a god.
But I am not going to bash a persons beliefs unless they intrude on another's.
Which you are doing by saying prove it while you can't disprove it.

Ohh and see moot's point.

Bronk
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Offline indy007

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Atheism and the USA, followup
« Reply #311 on: May 23, 2006, 11:00:31 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by moot
Indy, that's not sufficient.  Those people could simply have faith, "believe" in science.


Why wouldn't it? Given the ambition/time/money/resources neccessary, you can reproduce any experiments to prove or dis-prove the result. Science 101, I can take a cup of water, reduce its temperature, and watch it freeze. It doesn't matter what you, I, or anybody else thinks or believes.

Take that cup of water, give it to a Hindu, Christian, Muslim, Athiest, Politician, HO dweeb, or Stalinist, if they all do the same experiment, and they all get the same result. It is then a provable truth, and not based on faith.

Offline lukster

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« Reply #312 on: May 23, 2006, 11:08:48 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by indy007
Why wouldn't it? Given the ambition/time/money/resources neccessary, you can reproduce any experiments to prove or dis-prove the result. Science 101, I can take a cup of water, reduce its temperature, and watch it freeze. It doesn't matter what you, I, or anybody else thinks or believes.

Take that cup of water, give it to a Hindu, Christian, Muslim, Athiest, Politician, HO dweeb, or Stalinist, if they all do the same experiment, and they all get the same result. It is then a provable truth, and not based on faith.


We could argue this for a long time but what were once "facts" have been ongoingly disproven for many centuries. When you unknowingly have incomplete knowledge your repeatable experiments may not be revealing the truth that you think they do. Just because she floats doesn't guarantee she's a witch. ;)

Offline Bronk

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Atheism and the USA, followup
« Reply #313 on: May 23, 2006, 11:11:50 AM »
ag·nos·tic  
n.

a.One who believes that it is impossible to know whether there is a God.
b.One who is skeptical about the existence of God but does not profess true atheism.
One who is doubtful or noncommittal about something.  
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
If ya don't commit ya cant be wrong.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

a·the·ist    
n.
One who disbelieves or denies the existence of God or gods.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Sound convinced they are correct without proof of being correct. HYPOCRITICAL


Bronk

Edit: Hows that for a definition?
« Last Edit: May 23, 2006, 11:18:33 AM by Bronk »
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Offline Bronk

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Atheism and the USA, followup
« Reply #314 on: May 23, 2006, 11:41:01 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Chairboy
Bronk, I guess you didn't read my atheist/agnostic definition above.  I state exactly why you're mistaken, I'm not asserting to _know_ anything.  Atheist agnostic, remember?  So, try again.


By definition you are agnostic.
So why take offence when..

Originally posted by lazs2
I have no respect for athiests. Their very belief is a hypocracy that I can not ignore.                


He is not talking about you.


Bronk
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