Author Topic: Bush Weighs Deploying Guard to U.S. Border  (Read 2127 times)

Offline Elfie

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Bush Weighs Deploying Guard to U.S. Border
« Reply #60 on: May 13, 2006, 08:16:45 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Hangtime
Nope. No armed surface force is required.

Overwatch can detect the presence of any vehicle within 10 miles of the border.. if anything looking like a potential crossing attempt develops; the tones are transmitted, the location and threat sent to the Border Patrol and State Police.. and support Air elements scrambled..

The apperance within a few minutes of a covey of Apache helicopters.. hovering menacingly 6" inside our border with orders to respond with overwhelming force to the first shot at either them or the Border Patrol units sent to the treat scene will send a very powerful message to the coyotes, drug smugglers or anybody else foolish enought to think we won't defend American Soil..


This would work also. Anything that works is fine by me.
Corkyjr on country jumping:
In the end you should be thankful for those players like us who switch to try and help keep things even because our willingness to do so, helps a more selfish, I want it my way player, get to fly his latewar uber ride.

Offline Elfie

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Bush Weighs Deploying Guard to U.S. Border
« Reply #61 on: May 13, 2006, 08:18:13 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Shamus
A $10.00 private data base search would weed out 98% of the fake SS cards, and a half hour of work by a reasonably competent HR person would uncover the other 2%.

shamus


We dont have a system in place to do that atm, we should, but we dont. Hopefully that will change soon.
Corkyjr on country jumping:
In the end you should be thankful for those players like us who switch to try and help keep things even because our willingness to do so, helps a more selfish, I want it my way player, get to fly his latewar uber ride.

Offline Arlo

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Bush Weighs Deploying Guard to U.S. Border
« Reply #62 on: May 13, 2006, 08:41:36 PM »
220 B.C.

Qin Shi Huangdi: Maybe if I build a wall it will keep out the barbarians.

122 A.D.

Hadrian: Maybe if I build a wall it'll keep out the barbarians.

1948 A.D.

Stalin: Maybe if I build a wall it'll keep out the barbarians and keep in my own people.

2006 A.D.

Bush: I've got a government issued credit card with no limit and an idea that nobody's thought of before.

Offline StarOfAfrica2

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Bush Weighs Deploying Guard to U.S. Border
« Reply #63 on: May 13, 2006, 09:20:20 PM »
Jackal, I understand the point you are trying to make, but I cannot agree that an armed military force is what will knit our society back together.  The root of the problem is the idea of Racism, as wielded by those who have an axe to grind.  Everything from unevenly distributed enforcement of the laws to the subversion of our very thoughts on what constitutes "illegal" by portrayals in the media (news, movies, TV, books, newspapers, radio .......) clouds our perception of the problem and divides us on where to draw the lines; we make it easy for those people who scream Racist! to divide us.  We have to regain focus on the real issues of LEGAL immigration and enforcement of immigration law.  We have to focus on staffing and equipping the enforcement offices.  Volunteers like the Minutemen help fill the gaps immensely, and a govt. sponsored program could increase that role.  Educating people on the impact of illegals with more than just sound bites on the news.  Provide incentives like rewards for doing the RIGHT thing, and turning in illegals or their employers.

If we have armed Mexican troops crossing the border, then by all means, call out the Army and have them stomp some little grease spots out in the desert.  However, they have no business enforcing our laws on US soil.

Offline Shamus

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Bush Weighs Deploying Guard to U.S. Border
« Reply #64 on: May 14, 2006, 12:28:28 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Elfie
We dont have a system in place to do that atm, we should, but we dont. Hopefully that will change soon.


That system is in place now, I access it all the time, any employer can if they want to, most dont want to.

If they review the documents that INS tells them they must they are covered, they dont give a rip if its fake or not.

Now if the feds really wanted to stop this illegal worker problem, add the search to the paperwork, its not rocket science.

shamus
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Offline Jackal1

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Bush Weighs Deploying Guard to U.S. Border
« Reply #65 on: May 14, 2006, 08:16:13 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by StarOfAfrica2
Jackal, I understand the point you are trying to make, but I cannot agree that an armed military force is what will knit our society back together.  


Hehe. I think trying to knit our society back together would be too big of a job to expect from anybody or anything at the present. That I wouldn`t expect from the military or any other organization. I think that can only be done if and when some decide to pull their heads out of a very dark place. :) I understand what you are trying to say though.

Quote
The root of the problem is the idea of Racism, as wielded by those who have an axe to grind.


Those that wish to play the race card have the deck arranged for it to be on top of the deck to be dealt at any and every occasion. I think that`s pretty obvious to most.
This is not a race issue. It is an issue of security to our nation. Illegal Mexicans crossing the border is just the tip of the iceburg.
The Mexican government is , has been, and probably will continue to be very corrupt. For sale to the highest bidder comes to mind.
As far as the Mexican people are concerned....I feel for them, but I beleive the best way that we might be of some help or aid to them is to get our chickens in a row here at home first. Then we might be able to help.

Quote
Everything from unevenly distributed enforcement of the laws to the subversion of our very thoughts on what constitutes "illegal" by portrayals in the media (news, movies, TV, books, newspapers, radio .......) clouds our perception of the problem and divides us on where to draw the lines; we make it easy for those people who scream Racist! to


Agreed on that. Still you are seeing the problem as only concerning illegal Mexicans crossing. It`s a much bigger problem than that, but.......if you are on U.S. soil and you have entered the country by illegal means, you have commited an illegal act. You are here illegaly, no matter what the point of origination was. Cut and dried.


Quote
Volunteers like the Minutemen help fill the gaps immensely, and a govt. sponsored program could increase that role.


Agreed again. You also see how the Minutemen have been portrayed by our government. Vigilantes. Being called vigilantes for doing civic duty is not very wise choice of words IMHO.
As I said earlier ......if nothing else the Minuteman project has brought this problem to the public eye in a BIG way and has also proven that being a patriot still works.

Quote
If we have armed Mexican troops crossing the border, then by all means, call out the Army and have them stomp some little grease spots out in the desert.  


Which has happened on many occasions.



Quote
However, they have no business enforcing our laws on US soil.
[/QUOTE]

IMHO, it is the defending of our national secuity and our well being as a nation. Defending and preventing an invasion is eactly the duty and purpose of our military. Which is exactly what is taking place.

I think we agree on most isssues. It`s just that we are looking at different issues.
I think your comment on "out in the desert" is pretty much the way it is viewed by most. That is not the case. A trip to a border town such as Laredo after nightfall would be an eye opener for most. There is a battleground out there and it is being fought on U.S. soil by understaffed agencies that are not prepared for nor were implemented for such occurences. It`s getting worse rapidly and is very, very dangerous to the U.S. and our well being as a nation.
Democracy is two wolves deciding on what to eat. Freedom is a well armed sheep protesting the vote.
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Offline lazs2

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Bush Weighs Deploying Guard to U.S. Border
« Reply #66 on: May 14, 2006, 10:23:47 AM »
I think Hang is right in that I do not want to see soldiers roaming our streets enforcing federal law.   I also think that he is correct the government has the duty to protect our borders.

sandie is wrong in the whole employer thing.   Just paying (witholding) taxes on the illegals is not enough... they are a huge drain on education and healthcare too..

If we did not have so many social welfare services then..  simply witholding taxes would be fine so far as the financial end.  That is not the case tho.

either we have open borders and no hiring laws or we enforce the laws we have.   The most effective way to do the latter is to put the least amount of effort toward making the most difference and getting the most results... that is...

start throwing some of the scum bag, traitorous employers in prison before they sink us all.

lazs

Offline Toad

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Bush Weighs Deploying Guard to U.S. Border
« Reply #67 on: May 14, 2006, 11:22:09 AM »
Historically, what well-off nation has been able to maintain a high standard of living with unregulated borders?
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline Hangtime

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Bush Weighs Deploying Guard to U.S. Border
« Reply #68 on: May 14, 2006, 03:56:28 PM »
Toad.. yer right. The borders MUST be secure from unwanted incursion, traffic and illegal immigration.

We have agencys in place, laws on the books and guess what.. there is little enforcement and no deterrence.

Police agencies are mandated to not check immigration status as part of routine police activity. If i get stopped for a seatbelt violation, if there's a parking ticket warrant; off in cuffs I go. If an illegal ailen gets stopped, his illegal status is ignored, mine is not. That's messed up.

Here's what i think should be done...

we need to go to 'catch and release' NOW. If police get thier hands on a non documented ailen, off to INS and deportation he goes.

We need the current fine and imprisonment statutes for employing illegals enforced.

Due Dilligence -- documentable data base INS document check standards for employers needs to be implemented.

we need states to stop issuing licenses and providing services to illegals.

We need the military to provide complete border recon & survelience and active air incursion support to Border Patrol. States National Guard can be tasked, but implementation standards between states must be on par with federal guidelines to receive federal funding.

Border Patrol needs to be FULLY funded and staffed to the task of interdiction and detainment/processing/deportation.

Local county and town police/sherrifs departments could/should be paid a 'bounty' by the feds for illegals turned over for INS proccesing and deportment to help defray costs of enforcement in border counties.

The MinuteMen should recieve a commendation from Congress. And the rat weazel corporate sellout in the oval office should sign it.
The price of Freedom is the willingness to do sudden battle, anywhere, any time and with utter recklessness...

...at home, or abroad.

Offline Gunslinger

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Bush Weighs Deploying Guard to U.S. Border
« Reply #69 on: May 14, 2006, 04:16:44 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Toad
Historically, what well-off nation has been able to maintain a high standard of living with unregulated borders?


historically well off nations didn't have the threat of IEDs on our streets and in our schools.  A backpack full of C4 and a couple of school busses early in the morning would be a heafty price to pay for wanting "open borders"

Offline Arlo

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Bush Weighs Deploying Guard to U.S. Border
« Reply #70 on: May 14, 2006, 04:20:51 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Gunslinger
historically well off nations didn't have the threat of IEDs on our streets and in our schools.  A backpack full of C4 and a couple of school busses early in the morning would be a heafty price to pay for wanting "open borders"


That threat was as real twenty years ago as it is today. Just sayin'.

Curing the disease is preferable to treating the symptoms anyhoo.

Offline AquaShrimp

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Bush Weighs Deploying Guard to U.S. Border
« Reply #71 on: May 15, 2006, 08:16:17 AM »
Immigration isn't about race as much as its about education and class.  I have no problem with Indian doctors or Japanese engineers coming to America.  But the last thing we need is a bunch of uneducated poor people streaming across our borders.  We have enough of those as it is.

Offline Arlo

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Bush Weighs Deploying Guard to U.S. Border
« Reply #72 on: May 15, 2006, 01:48:01 PM »
Funny how the problem wasn't feared as much prior to 911. Alot of somewhat well to do farmers and housewives in southern states helped transport their share of illegals north of the border for a ready supply of cheap labor. That isn't doctors and engineers, for the record. Heck, seems feet have been dragging even after 911. This wasn't the issues it is now throughout Bush's first term. So ... NOW we panic. Gotta get this fixed before the current election. ;)

Offline Toad

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Bush Weighs Deploying Guard to U.S. Border
« Reply #73 on: May 15, 2006, 01:55:15 PM »
When do you suggest we address it?

It hasn't been adequately addressed for at least the last 20 years, elections or no elections.

And, again, no one has yet pointed out a country that was able to maintain a high standard of living while leaving it's borders open to illegal immigrants or just anyone who felt like crossing over and living in that country.

So, sooner or later it needs to be addressed. What do you suggest, sooner or later?
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline Arlo

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Bush Weighs Deploying Guard to U.S. Border
« Reply #74 on: May 15, 2006, 02:18:47 PM »
Our current standard of living (as a whole) is actually dropping. And although that could lead to equilibrium, I'd prefer it the other way. Help those south of the border raise theirs and the flow will slow. As far as security is considered, we've the technology to monitor the entire border. Of that, I'm certain. What we don't have is enough guardsmen to deploy without an increase of force. And if we increase the guard, why not just increase the BP?
« Last Edit: May 15, 2006, 02:25:21 PM by Arlo »