Author Topic: Bush Weighs Deploying Guard to U.S. Border  (Read 2242 times)

Offline Toad

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Bush Weighs Deploying Guard to U.S. Border
« Reply #75 on: May 15, 2006, 02:25:24 PM »
Like it or not, the illegals are part of the reason why it is dropping.

Equilibrium by bringing them here will occur at a very low level. ;)

So is it sooner or later?
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline Arlo

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Bush Weighs Deploying Guard to U.S. Border
« Reply #76 on: May 15, 2006, 02:27:44 PM »
I didn't suggest that an equilibrium with a mutual increase of the standard of living involved continued influx of illegal immigrants. Although there needs to be control on the border, that's the bandaid for the wound, not the cure for the disease.

Offline Hap

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Bush Weighs Deploying Guard to U.S. Border
« Reply #77 on: May 15, 2006, 05:24:04 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by StarOfAfrica2
Securing basic freedoms:  Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness; those are the responsibility of every citizen.  Not the US Military.  It is up to us to do our part every day to continue to protect and preserve that, not the job of the military.


Freedom from what?  In my mind, the evils that our natures produce.

hap

Offline Toad

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Bush Weighs Deploying Guard to U.S. Border
« Reply #78 on: May 15, 2006, 06:12:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Arlo
I didn't suggest that an equilibrium with a mutual increase of the standard of living involved continued influx of illegal immigrants. Although there needs to be control on the border, that's the bandaid for the wound, not the cure for the disease.


I agree the securing the border alone won't do it. Because the worst that happens to the transgressors that actually get caught is a misdemeanor charge, a short trip back to Mexico and a chance to try it again tomorrow.

Laz has it right. Start jailing those who knowingly hire illegals and the supply of jobs will dry up and/or shrink. No jobs, no point in crossing the border illegally to find work that isn't there.

And puh-leez, don't anyone bring up "it's just too hard to prove they hired them knowing they were illegal" or "the fake id's are just too good".

The can easily be a check of documents in the same way they check who you are when you buy a gun. Fill out a 4473, call it in and get approval or disapproval in 15 mintues or less. As Shamus said:

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A $10.00 private data base search would weed out 98% of the fake SS cards, and a half hour of work by a reasonably competent HR person would uncover the other 2%.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline Arlo

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Bush Weighs Deploying Guard to U.S. Border
« Reply #79 on: May 15, 2006, 06:46:00 PM »
Agreed. :)

Offline Rotax447

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Bush Weighs Deploying Guard to U.S. Border
« Reply #80 on: May 15, 2006, 07:53:48 PM »
Immigration reform, or the lack thereof, is all about politics, and has nothing to do with national security.  In the nineteen eighties, Congress vested some three million illegal aliens, most of whom were citizens of Mexico, with a stay in the US, and receive your US citizenship card, free.  Congress then made an explicit promise to the American people to tighten border security, so this would never happen again.

Fast forward twenty years, and now we are talking about some eighteen million illegal aliens, most of whom are citizens of Mexico.  Congress would now like to give them all a stay in the US, and receive your US citizen card, free.  In return, Congress is willing to make an explicit promise to the American people to secure our borders, so that this will never happen again.

Sorry, but I am not going to buy that load of happy horse chit, twice.

If Congress and US corporations wish to create a North American Free Work Agreement (NAFWA), then fine, let's all debate it out in the open.

As for “border security” in an era of “backpack” portable nuclear bombs, that is a joke.  The USSR spent trillions of hard earned rubles on border security.  For what?  A kid flying a Cessna penetrated that security and landed in Red Square.  If he had chanted Allah Ackbar three times, pressed the red button, and converted some sixty pounds of uranium into carbon, strontium, iodine, and cesium, then adios Moscow, and adios to trillions of rubles worth of “border security.”

 In my not so humble opinion, any nation that wants security in the twenty-first century, had better start by addressing the problems of it's neighbors.  And, like it or not, in the twenty-first century, we are all neighbors.

Offline Arlo

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Bush Weighs Deploying Guard to U.S. Border
« Reply #81 on: May 15, 2006, 08:15:05 PM »
Very good points Rotax. Worth giving some thought.

Offline Mr Big

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Bush Weighs Deploying Guard to U.S. Border
« Reply #82 on: May 15, 2006, 08:59:49 PM »
The one thing that seams different today is that now it's an issue that ordinary Americans are getting very pissed-off about and are fed up with.

I don't remember it ever being as hot an issue as it is today. It's becoming as issue that the politicians can't ignore.

911, Minuteman, "Day without illegals", NAFTA.

It's coming to a head now.

Offline Hangtime

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Bush Weighs Deploying Guard to U.S. Border
« Reply #83 on: May 15, 2006, 09:41:38 PM »
3,000 rounds HPBT .308 arrived today. eyeballing a 105mm howitzer now...

self propelled, or towed?

decisions, decisions.

;)
The price of Freedom is the willingness to do sudden battle, anywhere, any time and with utter recklessness...

...at home, or abroad.

Offline Mr Big

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Bush Weighs Deploying Guard to U.S. Border
« Reply #84 on: May 15, 2006, 09:43:43 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Hangtime
3,000 rounds HPBT .308 arrived today. eyeballing a 105mm howitzer now...

self propelled, or towed?

decisions, decisions.

;)



What are you gonna do? Go in to see "Big Al" and shoot up the works? :D

Offline Hangtime

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Bush Weighs Deploying Guard to U.S. Border
« Reply #85 on: May 15, 2006, 09:50:19 PM »
Would make for a nice yard toy for the neighborhood kids to play on. The gun tube would be an ideal adjustable ridgepole for a killer swing set.

:D
The price of Freedom is the willingness to do sudden battle, anywhere, any time and with utter recklessness...

...at home, or abroad.

Offline lazs2

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Bush Weighs Deploying Guard to U.S. Border
« Reply #86 on: May 16, 2006, 08:41:20 AM »
In WWII we did have army and reserve units manning the coast with big guns and everything....  

lazs

Offline Rotax447

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Bush Weighs Deploying Guard to U.S. Border
« Reply #87 on: May 16, 2006, 10:00:30 AM »
We sure did, and they were under orders from POTUS to engage and fire upon any Japanese or German enemy combatants that they encountered.

So, has POTUS declared that unarmed Mexican citizens illegally entering our country are enemy combatants?  Has he given orders to our military to open fire on them?  If not, then what is the point in sending combat troops to the border?

At least eighteen million Mexican citizens have illegally crossed our border over the past twenty years.  Could someone tell me how many terrorist acts they have committed?  How many planes have they hijacked?  How many schools have they shot up?  How many federal buildings have they bombed?

The Mexican people are not our enemy.  Start shooting them when they cross the border, and they sure will be.

Offline lazs2

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Bush Weighs Deploying Guard to U.S. Border
« Reply #88 on: May 16, 2006, 02:37:53 PM »
rotax... if we have an immigration policy and any violation of that policy is illegal and a countries citizens are violating it and our borders at a monstrous and increasing rate....

At what point do we not see that as a threat to our country?   They may not be committing terrorists acts but what do you call having 85% of all people arrested for murder in LA being illegals?   What do you call the assault on our infrastructure?

I don't really see that much difference between national guard troops and green border patrol agents...  I would agree that military troops would only be appropriate till the problem got to a manageable level.

I would very much be interested in your solution tho.

lazs

Offline Rotax447

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Bush Weighs Deploying Guard to U.S. Border
« Reply #89 on: May 16, 2006, 07:31:50 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
rotax... if we have an immigration policy and any violation of that policy is illegal and a countries citizens are violating it and our borders at a monstrous and increasing rate....

At what point do we not see that as a threat to our country?   They may not be committing terrorists acts but what do you call having 85% of all people arrested for murder in LA being illegals?   What do you call the assault on our infrastructure?


I call the assault on our infrastructure an abject failure of our education system.  Of course, that is best left to another thread.

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I don't really see that much difference between national guard troops and green border patrol agents...  I would agree that military troops would only be appropriate till the problem got to a manageable level.


Border Patrol agents, green or not, are taught the observation, surveillance, investigative, and detention techniques common to all law enforcement personal.  National Guard troops are taught to maneuver against, and destroy armed enemy combatants.  I see a very clear difference between the two.

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I would very much be interested in your solution tho.

lazs


Nothing interesting or novel in my solution.  In fact, if you can answer these two questions, you already know the only solution that I believe will work.

1) Why did the Senate fail to confirm Zoe Baird's nomination as Attorney General?
2) How many years did Zoe Baird spend in jail?