Author Topic: Mexico to get Sukhoi Su-27's  (Read 1254 times)

Offline eagl

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Mexico to get Sukhoi Su-27's
« Reply #15 on: May 14, 2006, 03:28:54 AM »
Ramzey,

What are you talking about?  Why the heck should I feel any need to "blame" mexico for buying military stuff?  Maybe you have a chip on your shoulder, but I'm just pointing out that their decision seems to have a much bigger political justification than a military one.  I usually cheer anytime another country buys russian hardware because I know that they'll be that much easier to defeat in the future if necessary...

If you see some sort of hidden agenda there that's really your problem, but I'm certainly not angry at all.  It's their decision and they bought what they thought would benefit them the most.  Or at least benefit whoever made the decision...

My only real concern is that if we ever had to try to work together with Mexico for defense, their newest stuff is totally incompatible with ours and that could present a problem.  It's almost inconsequential that I find it a bit frustrating that they could have gotten a better capability that would integrate with ours for about the same money.  But instead they chose some pretty new airplanes that don't integrate with anything including their own defense systems, for image and political reasons.  The SU-27 really does look cool both on paper and at airshows.

Still, don't you think that the fact that they're visibly aligning themselves with strongly communist countries at a time that the US is having a long-overdue immigration and border control debate is at least worth noting?  I think it's noteworthy.  I figure if that's what makes them happy, then they should go with it including all the consequences, but let's not be blind to their motivations and agenda.  One of the two nations that share a border with the US has chosen to buy military hardware that is compatible with the military hardware of nearby communist countries that hate the US with a passion, rather than buy hardware that could integrate with NATO standard hardware used by the US and Canada.  That makes it a political statement more than anything else, because the purchase of a mere dozen fighters isn't really significant from a pure military capability standpoint.

Aquashrimp,  the airframe itself is only a small part of the puzzle.  That su-27 all by itself may beat an F-16 all by itself, but nobody fights alone anymore.  What makes the US stuff superior is our effort put into integrating systems so they get info to the pilot as easily as possible.  The F-16 still has better cockpit ergonomics than the SU-27 variants, and the F-16 can be purchased with datalink capabilities that could, for example, integrate seamlessly with NORAD data feeds in the event of a real defense emergency.  But as it is now, the stuff they have is just going to be in the way, because it can't be integrated in any useful fashion.

In any case, I wouldn't suggest that Mexico buy a new build F-16 to Israeli specs...  I'd suggest a lease or buy on refurbished air defense F-16s.  They're lighter, can be easier/cheaper to maintain, are quite reliable, and the older F-16s matched with the newer engines have very good basic performance.  An air defense F-16 with external fuel tanks and AMRAAM, when datalinked to ground and airborn surveilance radar, is a very capable system.
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Offline eagl

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Mexico to get Sukhoi Su-27's
« Reply #16 on: May 14, 2006, 03:37:36 AM »
Hang - good decision.
Everyone I know, goes away, in the end.

Offline ~Caligula~

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Mexico to get Sukhoi Su-27's
« Reply #17 on: May 14, 2006, 05:40:29 AM »
I doubt that those new F16s for israel were built with air defence in mind. They are long range bombers IMO.

Offline Fishu

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Mexico to get Sukhoi Su-27's
« Reply #18 on: May 14, 2006, 06:13:06 AM »
For Mexico Su-27's are a far better choise than any American fighter. It'll be far cheaper to maintain and requires less skilled maintenance crew. The plane is also robust.
Besides, why would they want to have their military forces dependant of the US? Russians will happily supply them with spare parts and ammo, even with a discount.

Offline AquaShrimp

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Mexico to get Sukhoi Su-27's
« Reply #19 on: May 14, 2006, 06:20:23 AM »
Yeah, especially when Mexican/US relations are degrading.  What if Mexico purchased a number of F-16s, then the U.S. stopped military trade with Mexico due to the immigrant issue?

Is it sure that Mexico is purchasing the Su-27 flanker?  There are so many derivatives of the Flanker airframe nowadays.

Offline GRUNHERZ

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Mexico to get Sukhoi Su-27's
« Reply #20 on: May 14, 2006, 09:50:48 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by eagl
I think they're not entirely clear on what the word "strategic" means.  For the price of 12 SU-27s, they could probably get a couple real surveilance platforms with 10 times the "strategic surveilance" capability.  Of course then they wouldn't be able to say they have modern front line fighters either...  My opinion is that it's much more about image and beating the joneses than it is about military capability.

If they wanted any kind of real military capability upgrade, they'd get a couple of those mini-awacs based on a regional jet, and lease a half dozen old F-16s with AMRAAM and datalinks to ground and airborn surveilance radars.  But actual capability doesn't look as sexy at an airshow...


This is gonna be great!

Mexican Airforce, Mexican pilots, Airshows, SU-27, Mexico City thin high alt  air.. Hmmmm, anybody wanna take bets on the first Mexico K36 demostration?...

Offline Ack-Ack

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Mexico to get Sukhoi Su-27's
« Reply #21 on: May 14, 2006, 09:53:00 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by eagl


Still, don't you think that the fact that they're visibly aligning themselves with strongly communist countries at a time that the US is having a long-overdue immigration and border control debate is at least worth noting?  I think it's noteworthy.  I figure if that's what makes them happy, then they should go with it including all the consequences, but let's not be blind to their motivations and agenda.  One of the two nations that share a border with the US has chosen to buy military hardware that is compatible with the military hardware of nearby communist countries that hate the US with a passion, rather than buy hardware that could integrate with NATO standard hardware used by the US and Canada.  That makes it a political statement more than anything else, because the purchase of a mere dozen fighters isn't really significant from a pure military capability standpoint.




Mexico's relationship with Venezuela and Cuba are at the lowest point ever and I seriously doubt that paid any consideration into Mexico's decision to purchase Russian military equipment.  It boiled down to what can they get for the lowest amount of cash.  The U.S. would have put down too many conditions on Mexico for any U.S. combat planes where as Russia's only condition is that the check doesn't bounce when they go cash it.


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Offline Hangtime

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Mexico to get Sukhoi Su-27's
« Reply #22 on: May 14, 2006, 10:07:34 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by eagl
Hang - good decision.


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Offline Hawklore

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Mexico to get Sukhoi Su-27's
« Reply #23 on: May 14, 2006, 10:49:57 AM »
After handing out the cash to Russia, and promising them to use them to their full potential.

Mexico's Sukhoi shipment arrives.

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Offline Meatwad

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Mexico to get Sukhoi Su-27's
« Reply #24 on: May 14, 2006, 11:51:28 AM »
Just gives our planes target practice whn the US/mexico war starts
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Offline FUNKED1

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Mexico to get Sukhoi Su-27's
« Reply #25 on: May 14, 2006, 01:28:03 PM »
I heard it plays "La Cucaracha" when you hit the afterburners.
Also, I heard they are forgoing camouflage in favor of a mural of a naked girl riding a leopard.

Offline Boroda

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Mexico to get Sukhoi Su-27's
« Reply #26 on: May 14, 2006, 02:03:04 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by eagl
Still, don't you think that the fact that they're visibly aligning themselves with strongly communist countries at a time that the US is having a long-overdue immigration and border control debate is at least worth noting?  


Strongly communist countries?  :rolleyes:

Using the words that you don't understand rationally, simply because they were imprinted into your brain 20 years ago?...

Russian Federation isn't a "communist" country, Communist Party is in opposition to the regime since it wasn't banned by a court decision in 1993 IIRC and continued working. We have strong restrictions on ideology, including no parties forming organisation at "enterprise" level, in "working collectives".

WTG RosOboronExport! Latin American countries are always quite easily persuaded using "non-traditional" business schemes. ;)

Offline culero

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Mexico to get Sukhoi Su-27's
« Reply #27 on: May 14, 2006, 04:49:44 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by eagl
snip
I usually cheer anytime another country buys russian hardware because I know that they'll be that much easier to defeat in the future if necessary...


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Offline Gunslinger

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Mexico to get Sukhoi Su-27's
« Reply #28 on: May 14, 2006, 06:37:19 PM »
The biggest question I have is how are they going to mod the SU-27 to fit 10 people in the cockpit?  I just don't think it's mechanically possible.  ;)

Offline bj229r

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Mexico to get Sukhoi Su-27's
« Reply #29 on: May 14, 2006, 07:11:06 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by AquaShrimp
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