Author Topic: The President's Immigration Address  (Read 1184 times)

Offline Hap

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The President's Immigration Address
« on: May 16, 2006, 08:21:40 AM »
Last night, Moday, May 15th, President Bush addressed the nation.  Here's a link to his address.  It was too long to paste, but it is not a long read.

http://www.gop.com/News/Read.aspx?ID=6322

What say you?

hap

http://www.washingtonpost.com/

http://www.nytimes.com/

http://www.chicagotribune.com/
« Last Edit: May 16, 2006, 08:28:48 AM by Hap »

Offline lazs2

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The President's Immigration Address
« Reply #1 on: May 16, 2006, 08:37:25 AM »
very good ...

"Third, we need to hold employers to account for the workers they hire. It is against the law to hire someone who is in this country illegally. Yet businesses often cannot verify the legal status of their employees because of the widespread problem of document fraud. Therefore, comprehensive immigration reform must include a better system for verifying documents and work eligibility. A key part of that system should be a new identification card for every legal foreign worker. This card should use biometric technology, such as digital fingerprints, to make it tamper-proof. A tamper-proof card would help us enforce the law, and leave employers with no excuse for violating it. And by making it harder for illegal immigrants to find work in our country, we would discourage people from crossing the border illegally in the first place."

This is pretty much the republican stance that has been put together over the last few weeks/months...

I would go after the employers more agresssively but at least he realizes that so long as the lure is here.....

I also think that such a strong and reasonable message forces the democrats to babble... they have no solutions as usual and it will show.   The best they will be able to do is modify the order or numbers to Bush's plan...

This is one of the reasons why Bush was such a good choice for pres... no matter if you like him or not... in your heart you know that he is on board with what he is saying and... that no matter what the polls say... he is gonna do it.

lazs

Offline Hap

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The President's Immigration Address
« Reply #2 on: May 16, 2006, 09:12:46 AM »
lazs, i'm for cards or whatever that cheat-proof for 90% of us.  i wouldn't beef if i were told to obtain one.

i was dissapointed with the democratic response though with some i agree.

http://www.democrats.org/a/2006/05/governor_dean_r_1.php

politically, i'm sorta a hybrid, a conglomeration of republican, democrat, independent.  i find public life interesting.  as i see it, the life of the polis (politics) is mainly about culture, and at the heart of culture is morality, and at the heart of morality is religion.

have you read "where the right went wrong" by pat buchanan?  i can't think of a single person (despite their politics or lack thereof) whose posts on politics i've read over time here who would not find buchanan's short book facinating and have trouble putting it down.  folks may not agree with everything.  i don't know that i do.  but it's so substantive that it begs to be re-read too.

just a thought if you like to read.

hap

Offline eagl

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The President's Immigration Address
« Reply #3 on: May 16, 2006, 10:44:15 AM »
I thought it was pretty good.  Not perfect, but good.

What was really disappointing was the "democrat response".  Like it was some state of the union address...  They're totally politicizing it.  The crackhead dem that came on to "respond" to the president's proposals pretty much accused the president of wanting to jail anyone who aids any illegal immigrant, including hospital personnel.  What a load of BS.  The dems totally stepped over the line there in my opinion.  It's worse scaremongering than when they accuse other politicians of trying to steal medication from old people.  It was totally uncalled for.

The president didn't take a SINGLE political shot during his speech, didn't accuse anyone of anything, didn't do anything at all but make his proposal.  And in the response we've come to expect from the completely useless congress, the dems couldn't come up with anying but lies and scaremongering attacks.

WTG bush, shame on you dems.
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The President's Immigration Address
« Reply #4 on: May 16, 2006, 11:16:16 AM »
the dems have clearly lost touch with reality, it was painfully evident from the responses to dubya's speech.   on a postive note for the dems aging canadian rock icon neil young has released a new song called (IIRC) "looking for a leader" or words to that effect, which should affirm to the dems that they are indeed on the right path.  thank you mr young for your new tune and I will remind you of the advise ronnie van zant gave you 30 odd years ago concerning your opinion regarding our United States.

Offline E25280

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The President's Immigration Address
« Reply #5 on: May 16, 2006, 11:17:52 AM »
The part I found most interesting, and unfortunately the least "spelled out", was point #5 . . .
Quote
Fifth, we must honor the great American tradition of the melting pot, which has made us one nation out of many peoples. The success of our country depends upon helping newcomers assimilate into our society, and embrace our common identity as Americans. Americans are bound together by our shared ideals, an appreciation of our history, respect for the flag we fly, and an ability to speak and write the English language. English is also the key to unlocking the opportunity of America. English allows newcomers to go from picking crops to opening a grocery, from cleaning offices to running offices, from a life of low-paying jobs to a diploma, a career, and a home of their own. When immigrants assimilate and advance in our society, they realize their dreams, they renew our spirit, and they add to the unity of America.
Does this mean he is in favor of making English the official language of the country?  Or am I reading too much into it?
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Offline Eagler

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The President's Immigration Address
« Reply #6 on: May 16, 2006, 11:26:35 AM »
uh .. if English isn't already the offical language, what is? ebonics?

the speech was fine - as usual the content was better than the delivery but actions speak louder than words
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Offline E25280

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The President's Immigration Address
« Reply #7 on: May 16, 2006, 11:28:55 AM »
The US has no official language.  So, several states have been able to make laws requiring all state documents be available in Spanish, for example.
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Offline Timofei

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The President's Immigration Address
« Reply #8 on: May 16, 2006, 12:21:44 PM »
See Rule #5, #2
« Last Edit: May 16, 2006, 12:48:53 PM by Skuzzy »
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Offline Hap

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The President's Immigration Address
« Reply #9 on: May 16, 2006, 01:16:53 PM »
What follows is a response to the President's address last night.  The article appeared in the Chicago Tribune and does not appear to have been written by a liberal which is good to know if you're a conservative afraid of being infected.

O'Sullivan brings up points that i did not consider.  

Did these ploys sneak into Bush's speech?
May 16, 2006
BY JOHN O'SULLIVAN

For my next trick, ladies and gentlemen, I will perform a death-defying stunt -- no, not climbing a 300-foot ladder, diving through seven rings of fire and landing perfectly safely in a glass of water. That's easy once you know how to do it.
Instead, I shall advise you on how to interpret President Bush's speech on immigration that you heard last night but that was delivered several hours after this column was written. Very simply: Ask yourselves the following questions:
Did the president use the phrase ''comprehensive immigration reform'' several times? That's revealing because this phrase is an example of smuggling. He hopes that by wrapping a ''temporary guest-worker program'' and the ''not an amnesty'' provision to legalize the 12 million illegals already here -- both of which are unpopular -- inside a tough-sounding popular promise to secure the border with the National Guard, he will persuade most Americans to accept the first two proposals.
Did the president spend a large part of his speech on promising to secure the border by sending the National Guard there? Heigh-ho. This is the umpteenth time that Bush has promised to toughen up border security with a new initiative. He does so whenever there is public disquiet about illegal immigration.
Yet this kind of mini-initiative is fundamentally irrelevant. As this column has repeatedly pointed out, porous borders are the result of uncontrolled immigration as much as its cause. You cannot control the borders, however many patrols you hire or fences you build, if you grant an effective pardon to anyone who gets 100 miles inland.
Besides, a guest-worker program that admits as many people as employers are willing to hire (at sweatshop wages Americans won't accept) makes extra border security pointless. If everyone can come in legally, there won't be any illegals crossing the desert or swimming the river.
Did the president deny that he and the Senate are proposing an amnesty because the 12 million illegals ''will have to go to the end of the line''?
The trick here is the identity of the line. You thought it meant the line to enter and live in the good old USA, didn't you? That's exactly what the president and his speechwriters wanted you to think. In fact, it means the line to become a citizen. Under the Senate-White House ''compromise,'' the illegals will immediately be granted the right to reside here permanently while legal applicants still wait outside.
It's the line to enter that really matters, however, since a U.S. permanent resident has all the rights and duties of a U.S. citizen except the right to vote and the duty to serve on a jury. Illegals will have to wait a dozen or so years inside America before they obtain those last two. And they will probably be casting votes when those ''ahead of them in the line'' are still sitting in consular waiting rooms in Warsaw and Manila. Still, all together now, ''IT'S NOT AN AMNESTY.''
When the president stressed that the guest-worker program would be temporary, did he mention ''anchor babies''? No? Well, just guessing, but that omission may be because ''anchor babies,'' as the phrase implies, make ''temporary'' guest-workers permanent.
Here's how: Under the U.S. Constitution, if a temporary guest-worker or spouse gives birth during their stay, they become parents of a U.S. citizen and enjoy a right of residence and, in due course, citizenship. The baby anchors them in the United States and nullifies the president's pledge that temporary guest-workers will have to return when their job assignment ends. Unless Bush proposed a constitutional amendment to remove that right of citizenship (and my guess is that he proposed no such change), then the guest-worker program is simply another route to permanent U.S. residency and citizenship.
Did the president quote many statistics about the number of people likely to be admitted under the ''compromise'' legislation? Or the likely cost of granting amnesty? No? Well, that's hardly surprising. When Alabama Sen. Jeff Sessions produced a chart suggesting that something like 30 million people would be admitted under provisions of the compromise bill, his brave and effective speech halted it dead in its tracks in the Senate before Easter.
But the latest estimates suggest that Sessions was being overly cautious. Robert Rector of the Heritage Foundation has just added up all the provisions of the bill -- for instance, it doubles the number of legal immigrants -- and discovered they would admit 103 million new people over the next 20 years. It's estimated that 19 million people would otherwise enter America over the same period.
The same author last week added up the fiscal costs of the Hagel-Martinez compromise bill. He concluded that the long-term cost of government benefits could be $30 billion per year or more: ''In the long run, the Hagel/Martinez bill, if enacted, would be the largest expansion of the welfare state in 35 years.'' It was very sensible of the president not to bore the listeners with such details.
Finally, did the president cite polls arguing that the American people were on the side of such generous reforms? If so, he's been reading the New York Times or Time magazine again. Both media outlets, which favor open borders, have been asking questions designed to push people into supporting amnesty and guest-worker programs. So the Center for Immigration Studies designed a scrupulously fair opinion poll that laid out all the real-world options in neutral language. It found that the ''enforcement only'' bill favored by House Republicans was preferred over the Senate ''compromise'' bill by roughly 2-1.
All in all, Mr. Bush seems bent on committing political suicide. Will the American people join him?

Offline Rotax447

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The President's Immigration Address
« Reply #10 on: May 16, 2006, 01:19:06 PM »
I am a bit confused by Part 4.  It seems that POTUS is saying that the longer you were were in this country, and the longer you worked in this country, the better your chances are of staying in this country.

Here is what confuses me.  That sounds suspiciously like the longer you violated the law, and the more skillful you were at violating the law, the better your chances are of becoming a real, live, US person.

What am I missing here?

Of course the Demmy response sounds even more confusing.  They are going to protect the American worker, while granting blanket amnesty to all illegals.  

What am I missing there?

Offline Timofei

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The President's Immigration Address
« Reply #11 on: May 16, 2006, 01:42:55 PM »
LOL Skuzzy, you deserve GWB or you don't ?
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Offline Hap

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The President's Immigration Address
« Reply #12 on: May 16, 2006, 01:59:02 PM »
rotax, the o'sullivan essay i posted above your post had not dissimilar observations.  find the "front of the line" portion.

hap

Offline Hangtime

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The President's Immigration Address
« Reply #13 on: May 16, 2006, 02:03:51 PM »
The guy has a great speach writer(s).

The problem ain't fixed. The illegals get to stay. 25 years ago, another flowery speach filled with promise lulled us.. and we were systematicly screwed.

we're being screwed again.

and this time, the corporate sell out in the oval office is gonna set up a 'guest worker' program for corporations that will allow them to legally import low wage workers that are nothing less than legally indentured serfs. "Screw up; Jose, ask for a raise; attempt to leave this job for a better one, take one too many days off... we'll yank yer visa and send yer bellybutton back to honduras."

Corporate Human Resource Nirvana. And you can bet the top and bottom dollar that health care and services will not be provided by the employer... and that the wage will be low enough to make sure it qualifies the 'guest worker' for the subsistence support dole and free health care outta my pocket.. while the majority of americans still remain uncovered.

I flat refuse to accept that. And it's couched in the concept that we NEED a 'guest  worker' program. we don't. we've got MILLIONS of hopeful LEGAL immigrants already[/b] in the conga line to come here and work... without surrendering their human rights to a better job if they find one, better pay if they can get it.

America is the Land of The Free.. this BS guest worker program will effectively import a new 'lowest' class.. a class without the rights of fair pay for honest work. A class that will rely on the rest of us to pay for the corporate privledge of owning them.

Lastly.. anybody see them putting 5,000 extra INS agents to work on processing paper? Anybody see any provisions for funding to identify, document and process the paper on the 12 million (more likely 20 million) here already? The logistics are nearly impossible.. and they have been circumspectly ignored.

Screw that flowery speach. I'm sick of 'em. Promises.. but business as usual.
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Offline Sandman

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The President's Immigration Address
« Reply #14 on: May 16, 2006, 02:30:40 PM »
One of Bush's better speeches...

After the past few weeks of immigration and immigration reform being the topic du jour, I gotta wonder.

Why now?

Has the immigration problem really changed in the past five to ten years? I can't see that it has. This is simply the White House doing its level best to control the news cycle. They're doing a good job of it too.

Right or wrong (and I agree with a lot that Bush said), I wonder about the timing of it. What other news is being pushed from the front pages? I'll bet that's the real story... and the Dems are far too inept to control it.
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