Low bombers vs high dive bombing?

[Stoney74]

Ok, I know this is a game, but...

Why is it that in the MA, the easiest way to survive an attack on a CV and get bombs on target is level strat bombers at 6,000 ft, and the easiest way to get your butt shot off is to tip in at 12,000ft in a dive bombing fighter?

In real life it was the exact opposite...  Otherwise the U.S. Navy might have tried to hire Doolittle after he figured out a way to get '25s off the CV...

[hubsonfire]

Ack tracks a 500mph target just as accurately as a 100mph target. Ack tracks targets behind hills, and over mountains. Ack does a lot of things that aren't even possible. Why, do you ask? Because recoding the ack isn't a priority right now.

[wojo71]

I don't know about everybody else, but its easier for me to shoot down  a diving plane because its coming  right at me and its easier to lead them and get a hit

[Brooke]

In WWII anti-shipping, I don't think the use of divebombers was because it was safer than level bombing.  I think it was more an issue of ability to hit the ship.  Level bombers even at modest altitudes (5k, say) couldn't hit maneuvering ships, whereas dive bombers could.

Level bombers were used sometimes in anti-shipping roles where they could come in very low without getting shot down and where bomb hits near the ship could still sink it, such as against cargo and transport ships.

[NAVCAD]

Brooke is essentially correct.

The British and the Americans tried on a number of occasions to Level Bomb with Lancs or B-17/B-24s.  Although medium to high level bombimg works well on stationary targets, the relatively manuverable ships were much more difficult to hit.

With a dive bomber (SBD, TBM, etc) the plane had a more vertical path to the ship, bomb was dropped lower and adjustments could be made easier in the aircraft with the ship having less time to re-act.

Still a difficult prospect considering the  ACK and other variables affecting both the plane and the ship.

wojo is coorect in that there is much less "lead" needed for a diving fighter than a level bomber at 12,000 doing 220 MPH.

And yes this is just a game:)

NAVCAD

"Life is tough...but it's tougher when you're stupid"  John Wayne as SGT D.L. Stryker in Sands of Iwo Jima.

[Regurge]

Level bombing ships works in AH because theyre nearly always moving in a straight line. Noone programs zig-zag courses and rarely does anyone turn the group in time to avoid getting hit. Plus noone flys cap waiting for bombers that might not show for 20 minutes, when theres a huge furball just seconds away.

Dive bombing doesnt work because people always come in 1 at a time, making them easy kills for 5" gunners. It they attacked in groups and from different directions, 1 or 2 will die but the rest will get through.

[thndregg]

Originally posted by Regurge
Level bombing ships works in AH because theyre nearly always moving in a straight line.

Not for me.  I can consistently hit and sink a CV using B26's @ 8K, 265 TAS (doors open) with a 500lb. bomb load, wether it turns or not. At 8K the ship does not have the time to get clear of the ord drop. As long as you can eyeball the turn, you will nail it everytime.

[SAS_KID]

Plus in this game the bombsites ar a lot more accurate than they really were.

[E25280]

Also in RL, when a ship did turn, it was not always the nice, predicatable, lazy arc it does in AH.  And no one was screaming "stop turning the friggin carrier, I am trying to take off!"

Ok, it was mostly the CAP thing. . . .

[Regurge]

Originally posted by thndregg
Not for me.  I can consistently hit and sink a CV using B26's @ 8K, 265 TAS (doors open) with a 500lb. bomb load, wether it turns or not. At 8K the ship does not have the time to get clear of the ord drop. As long as you can eyeball the turn, you will nail it everytime.

I suspected that might be possible, now I know. Still, not everyone can do that, or alot of bombers fly higher. I've seen a number of near misses apparently caused by the cv turning before the bombers get in icon range.

[Stoney74]

Well, I guess my frustration is taking the time to climb up to 12k, then get blown out of the sky just as I tip in.  During most of the pacific battles, SBDs or Helldivers could get in and make their drop.  I know the torpedo planes got slaughtered most of the time.  I know the dive-bombers took some losses, but folks didn't get whacked like they do with the 5 inch here.  I'll just chalk it up to the game, and be unhappy driving my B-24's out and level bombing I guess...

[Brooke]

Also, I don't think the Japanese ships had proximity fused shells, like the US ships did.  We had mini radar sets in the shells, so that they could sense when they were close to an airplane, and then they'd explode.  It increased frequency of hitting by a factor of 10 or more.

[NAVCAD]

Stoney74,

Don't get frustrated!  The 5" flak was just as deadly in real life as in the game.  As Brooke said we had proximity fuses.  In the later stages of the war the FLAK guns on the ships accounted for an enourmous amount of kills against the Kamikazes.  

Regurge hit the nail on the head with the onesies, twosies approach.  Normally you had a squadron that attacked from the entire compas rose, not just one bearing.

If you anticipate the turn, level bombing works, you do of course have a 50-50 shot as to which way he will turn.  Normally people will turn the ship away from you instead of across your path (my observance).

Of course you can do what a lot of us do and that is the suicide 1000' or less scream in, FLAK exploding, guns firing and hope for the best as you pop up and lob your bombs:)  This tends to lower your overall rank due to being killed, but your country mates appreciate you taking one for the team:)



NAVCAD

[Clifra Jones]

Originally posted by Brooke
Also, I don't think the Japanese ships had proximity fused shells, like the US ships did.  We had mini radar sets in the shells, so that they could sense when they were close to an airplane, and then they'd explode.  It increased frequency of hitting by a factor of 10 or more.

They did not. That was a big secret during the war. Proximity fuzes took a major toll on the Japanese air forces in the later par tof the war. Saved many a ship.

[Lye-El]

Originally posted by Stoney74
  and be unhappy driving my B-24's out and level bombing I guess...

Level bombing is what the B-24 did. It didn't do Stuka crap.