Author Topic: ~Yawn.~ (Read 1101 times)

Ripsnort · « **Reply #15 on:** August 21, 2001, 02:04:00 PM »

Just because we're paranoid doesn't mean we shouldn't be....

Staga · « **Reply #16 on:** August 21, 2001, 02:05:00 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by StSanta:
Denmark is currently thinking the US might invade.

You meant "Hoping" ?

Ripsnort · « **Reply #17 on:** August 21, 2001, 02:10:00 PM »

Just want to set the record straight:

By China saying "...smash at any time any plots by Taiwan independent separatists" is like the U.S. saying "...smash at any time any plots by Denmark independent separatists." There truly is some rust in that type of red irony.

leonid · « **Reply #18 on:** August 21, 2001, 02:39:00 PM »

"Belch!"
"Oops, sorry."

AcId · « **Reply #19 on:** August 21, 2001, 02:47:00 PM »

*sniff, sniff*

Smells like chicken leonid.

mrfish · « **Reply #20 on:** August 21, 2001, 03:00:00 PM »

i was on a ferry from hong kong to gong yi in march of 2000 when china sent those fighters cruising low alt over taiwan and everybody got in a huff.

i remember an old man ribbing a soldier that he had better button up his uniform and get ready. he soldier sat with a red stripped soccer tee shirt under his green army jacket and a cigarette dangling and chuckled with the old man. an american soldier would be court marshalled for much less insolence than that.

a lot of people in the canton region are loyal to the taiwanese - their families are there and they enjoy a kind of peace because they are far removed from the capital at beijing where things are more strict.

there is a lot of tension between some chinese and tawianese because families chose different sides back in '49 - but by the same token there are still strong ties in some families and china would have trouble gaining a consensus among their people - who aren't stupid and know they are being lied to. they have the internet after all!

it's just posturing and in reality i think a comprimise is in the works. we'll have to look elsewhere for our big war...

Ripsnort · « **Reply #21 on:** August 21, 2001, 03:27:00 PM »

MrFish, kinda proves my point, if you provoke a country into war(low flying Chinese jets over Taiwain), it gives you the excuse you've been looking for since 1949, to invade. In other words, Taiwanese Soldiers at a radar complex 'paint' the low flying A/C...Chinese pilots consider it aggression, fire on radar complex, BOOOOOOM....war has begun.

[ 08-21-2001: Message edited by: Ripsnort ]

Tac · « **Reply #22 on:** August 21, 2001, 04:36:00 PM »

Bah, just sell Taiwan a couple of Nukes and let those 2 settle their own Cuban Crisis.

Wait.. hmm.. pass the coffee Swulfe, that sounded too easy...

Toad · « **Reply #23 on:** August 21, 2001, 05:30:00 PM »

Tac,

There were rumors back around '96 IIRC that Israel, South Africa and Taiwan had all collaborated on making a few nukes and the means to deliver them. Seems there was a bright, unidentified flash out in the ocean not far from S. Africa about that time as well.

I'd have to do a little digging; I don't really remember all the "details".

In any event, I wouldn't put "Taiwan has nukes" beyond the realm of possibility.

Cheery thought, eh?

mrfish · « **Reply #24 on:** August 21, 2001, 06:12:00 PM »

toad, taiwan wasn't a part of that arrangement from what i've heard (from charles h. shapiro, one of my physics professors and los alamos alum), but israel did test it's nukes in south africa*. they colaborated*, with israel and both countries developed nukes - israel contributing it's stolen info* from the us and south africa contributing a place to do the dirty work away from prying eyes.

(*it is speculated)

s.a.'s program was developed when whites held power there and presently nelson mandela has been extremely anti nuclear. the stated aim of the original south african nuke program was one of deterrence anyway, and despite south africa's record on human rights, they never planned on using it against an enemy but rather to keep restless african neighbors at bey. they are one of the countries that say this and scholars actually agree.

in fact south africa is often held out as the shining example of a country that has successfully dropped in's nuclear program, and they stand as the only country to start such a program and then abandon it volutarily.

some speculate the south africans were not able to keep close enough controls on their facillities and weapons and dropped it as a safety measure but i applaud them all the same.

it's speculation again but ask anyone in science and see what they tell you or ask them how much they were offered to help

a lot of interesting stories live because of this arrangement...

Cobra · « **Reply #25 on:** August 21, 2001, 06:32:00 PM »

Hey Mr. Fish,
You still get to HK at all?

I used to go 3/4 times a year up until last September (still remember with fondness landings at the old airport

). Would go into Shenzhen and HuangPu, Shajing as well.

Didn't care too much for Shenzhen, but then again, I was visiting factories and factory towns....But Hong Kong is an absolutely great place to visit and do business in.

Cobra

Vruth · « **Reply #26 on:** August 21, 2001, 06:45:00 PM »

Isn't the US 7th sitting right off the coast of Hong Kong right now? You know, the big arse carrier group with enough firepower to sink three or four Chinese invasion divisions?

Guess any Chinese attack would be reministant of the 6 day war back in 1967. That war lasted 132 hours and 30 minutes (less than 6 days), while the fightings on Egyptian side only lasted 4 days and only 3 days on the Jordanian side. Cept this time, it would mean 100'000 Chinese troops on the bottom of the Taiwan Strait. I wonder if the retaliation from China include nukes? You know, the way a spoiled brat reacts when mommy slaps a hand for being in the cookie jar.

Scary stuff.

V

[ 08-21-2001: Message edited by: Vruth ]

mrfish · « **Reply #27 on:** August 21, 2001, 06:53:00 PM »

yeah cobra - planning on going back next year - can't say i love getting stared at which is every waking second of time on the mainland but everyone is nice at least and they treated me like a celebrity or something

everyone tries to feed you and practice their english on you and i never had to wait in a line because everyone hustles you to the front.

i agree with your assessment of shenzhen, if i remember correctly it is one of those factory towns near guangzhou. most of those towns are filthy and depressing in that area due to the fatcories and waste management. it's really primitive. my wife is from taishan and we usually go a different way from hk when we go there so i forget some of the towns names.

hk rules as far as vacation towns go and i really enjoyed staying out all night in kowloon and even had a good time at trendy tsim tsa tsui bars though the realness of kowloon is the best imo. it is a great, inexpensive and very safe place to party. the subway system is cleaner and faster than both paris and ny and definitley san francisco's joke of an underground and i can't wait to go back and visit.

sorry for the hijack rip

Toad · « **Reply #28 on:** August 21, 2001, 07:03:00 PM »

Like I said Fish, I don't remember all the details but I was in the Recon biz when that flash happened. There was some talk; I do remember Taiwan being mentioned but I can't recall any definitive proof on ANY of it.

Regardless, it's not like there aren't nukes out there to be had if .... "The Price Is Right! Taiwan! Come on Dooooown!"

-dead- · « **Reply #29 on:** August 21, 2001, 08:58:00 PM »

vruth - US Seventh Fleet currently sitting in the Big Apple Bar in Wanchai, drinking beer & chatting up Filipinas or wandering around getting ripped off by the locals.

mrfish & cobra - yup shenzhen & all around there is an awful hell hole - expect for one or two high points - next time you're out there, see if you can't find the amusement park that runs the Chinese military jet fighter simulators [EP-3 collision 500 points

] in tandem (God bless the People's Liberation Army and their crass commercialism). The other is of course Window on the World's wonderful Nasca Lines with disco lights in 'em. Mmmm Cheesier than Kraft, tackier than Pritt Stick.

[ 08-21-2001: Message edited by: -dead- ]