Announce: Aces Fight Figter Comparisons

[Urchin]

Thanks for putting this together DoK and company, it is quite cool.

[mussie]

Very Professional Dok...

A big to ya

[MOSQ]

Dok,

That makes sense. I like your idea of the additional charts you outlined above.

And please don't forget to change the note on the firing times to Hammer. He deserves the credit, I know how long testing like that can take.

[DoKGonZo]

- Added charts for Top Speed (low alt) and Top End Acceleration (low alt)
- Fixed credits on firing time chart

[Rooster]

A really well done piece of work Sir.
Thankyou very much.

[DoKGonZo]

Thanks.

Note to the data dudes ... the plane tags I list on the Welcome page to encode URL's are the same ones to use in the spreadsheets if you want to update your data anytime. I can put together a quickie CSV of just that column if you prefer.

[Saxman]

Real quick note on firing times...

I notice that for the Hogs with .50 cal you list them all with firing times of 30 seconds for primary, 28 seconds on secondary. However:

F4U-1 has 400 rds/gun on the inboard 4 and 375 rds/gun for the outboard pair. The F4U-1D and -4 have 400 rds/gun for all six.

Soooo...

Why does the -1D and -4 have the same firing times as the -1? Shouldn't it be 30/30?

[zorstorer]

Get work fellas huge

Is there any way to get roll times at various speeds included?  Would help to get a full picture of a planes fighting ability...for example the FW-190F8 has a HUGE turning radius, but with the incredible roll rate it a nimble little plane, but the folks who don't fly 190's can't see that.

Just a thought on a very nice piece of work... again!!

[MOSQ]

Originally posted by zorstorer
Get work fellas huge

Is there any way to get roll times at various speeds included?  
Just a thought on a very nice piece of work... again!!

Yes there is. If you get a stopwatch and test every plane. Then send the results to Dok in an Excel spreadsheet I'm sure he will create the graphs.

[zorstorer]

Originally posted by MOSQ
Yes there is. If you get a stopwatch and test every plane. Then send the results to Dok in an Excel spreadsheet I'm sure he will create the graphs.

Good one

I would do that, but I am pretty sure it was done....gonna do some searching on the boards....

[DoKGonZo]

I'll take a look at the F4U's firing duration. Probably just a cut&paste error.

I'll also try to post a CSV file with the proper plane tags this weekend so it's easier to update measurements into the system.


Roll rate measurements should probably be taken at multiple speeds. Some low speed to represent "stallfighting", medium speed, and some high speed to represent handling in diving firing run.

1-notch-flaps turn rate would also be neat to have, especially where the US planes are concerned.

Another comparison that would be useful would be MA fuel duration. Full tanks and full plus max drop tanks.

I'm only mentioning these other items because I'm hoping someone might have already sampled the data. I ain't asking anyone to waste a summer afternoon hunched over their PC with a stopwatch.

[mussie]

Hey Dok

When I submit and the charts are populated with the data, If I try to print I end up with the list of aircraft on the left this causes me to loose half the right hand side charts...

Is there any chance you could add a button "Submit And Display Printer Friendly Version" Which would display the charts only...?

I can print in landscape but it just does not look very "Clean"... The printout does not do the charts justice.

I am still trying to find a quick and clean way around, this but if you could make a printer friendly version it would be great.

Thanks for the work you and all the other guys have put in..

[mussie]

BTW the BF110C4 appears to have somthing wrong with its Max Low alt speed (maybe an extra 0 on the end or somthing)

[Saxman]

When including fuel duration, I think you should include full power, WEP, and cruise settings.

Another suggestion:

Since it's already set up to select the planes to view, how about options to select the STATS to view. That way as the charts expand and more stats are added you can cut down the clutter and see the relevant information. You could also toss in modifiers like fuel and oridinance loadout which have a BIG effect on performance.

So lets say you want to compare how the Spixteen and Nikki turn, climb and accelerate under 50% fuel loadout. Select the planes, select the performance stat, select your fuel load. Badda-bing badda-boom.

Some possible modifiers:

Fuel loads (25, 50, 75, 100, 100 + 1 DT, 100+ 2 DT, etc)

Alternate gun packages (easiest way would be to find what the HIGHEST number of alternates is, number then from 1 through that, and just display the relevant data)

Alternate ammo loads

Ordinance loadouts

Altitude sampling (maybe in increments of 5000 feet from SL up. Measuring performance on the deck is nice, but not ALL MA fights scrape the sagebrush)

[Widewing]

Originally posted by DoKGonZo
I'll take a look at the F4U's firing duration. Probably just a cut&paste error.

I'll also try to post a CSV file with the proper plane tags this weekend so it's easier to update measurements into the system.


Roll rate measurements should probably be taken at multiple speeds. Some low speed to represent "stallfighting", medium speed, and some high speed to represent handling in diving firing run.

1-notch-flaps turn rate would also be neat to have, especially where the US planes are concerned.

Another comparison that would be useful would be MA fuel duration. Full tanks and full plus max drop tanks.

I'm only mentioning these other items because I'm hoping someone might have already sampled the data. I ain't asking anyone to waste a summer afternoon hunched over their PC with a stopwatch.

About 6 months ago, I tested many aircraft for firing duration using a stop watch. I have times for all F4Us.

Primary/Secondary

F4U-1: 28.8/26.8
F4U-1C: 20.5/20.0
F4U-1D: 28.8/28.8
F4U-4: 28.8/28.8

In addition, I have continued high altitude acceleration and speed testing, adding several more to the list.

You may be surprised to learn that at 25,000 feet, the P-47N looks to be the class of the field, capable of 456 mph and shaving several seconds off the Spitfire Mk.IX's best acceleration times (from 200 to 300 TAS) at 20k and 25k. I have yet to test the F4U-4 and Spitfire Mk.XIV, the only two aircraft that may challenge the P-47N at 25k. The P-51s didn't come close.

Also, I have done some turn radius and rate testing with the P-38s using full flaps. They have improved as one would expect, moving up about 12 places in the rankings respectively. I also worked with the F6F-5, looking for the best combination of factors that obtain the best radius and rate. I found that I can get the radius down to 443 feet, while maintaining 21.26 degrees/sec rate (at 112 mph). That means that it has virtually the same radius as the Chog, but has a considerable advantage in turn rate. Indeed, its turn rate is faster than all of the F4Us, an advantage that can be used to defeat the F4U's tighter turn radius. Likewise, a light F6F-5 can compete with a Niki that has 50% of greater internal fuel. One can significantly increase turn rate for little loss in radius by simply keep one's speed at around 122 mph. Under these circumstances, the turn radius grows slightly to 451 feet, but the rate of turn jumps to 22.7 degrees/second. However, the average pilot will not come close to this without a great deal of practice.

As I discovered dueling P-51 vs P-51, limiting flaps, giving up turn radius for rate, can provide an important advantage. Likewise, the same applies to the F6F.

My regards,

Widewing