Author Topic: Seccession of U.S. states from the union  (Read 2929 times)

Offline Hangtime

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Seccession of U.S. states from the union
« Reply #15 on: May 26, 2006, 10:41:59 PM »
Time fer a lil History Lesson.

Thomas Jefferson in his First Inaugural Address said, "If there be any among us who would wish to dissolve this Union, or to change its republican form, let them stand undisturbed as monuments of the safety with which error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left to combat it." Fifteen years later, after the New England Federalists attempted to secede, Jefferson said, "If any state in the Union will declare that it prefers separation ... to a continuance in the union .... I have no hesitation in saying, 'Let us separate.'"

At the constitutions ratification convention, the delegates said, "The powers granted under the Constitution being derived from the People of the United States may be resumed by them whensoever the same shall be perverted to their injury or oppression." In Federalist Paper 39, James Madison, the father of the Constitution, cleared up what "the people" meant, saying the proposed Constitution would be subject to ratification by the people, "not as individuals composing one entire nation, but as composing the distinct and independent States to which they respectively belong." In a word, states were sovereign; the federal government was a creation, an agent, a servant of the states.

Now, lets fast forward to Gettysburg... and carefully consider Lincolns magnificent speech. Historian H.L. Mencken: "It is poetry not logic; beauty, not sense." Lincoln said that the soldiers sacrificed their lives "to the cause of self-determination; government of the people, by the people, for the people should not perish from the earth." Mencken says: "It is difficult to imagine anything more untrue. The Union soldiers in the battle actually fought against self-determination; it was the Confederates who fought for the right of people to govern themselves." Political Spin... Lincolns or Menckens ? It should be noted that history records WHEN the Administration freed the slaves.. and it wasn't untill AFTER the Union finally actually won a battle... and that was 2 years into the war.  ;)

As it stands now, every time I see a 'political map' I see a massive number of 'red' states, and two coastlines that are blue. Red... Blue. hmmmmmmmmmm.  Massive disparity of political opinion & state will.

The one thing we can all agree that TRULY sucks about MODERN America is the sick monkey on our backs.. the FEDERAL Government.

I'm tellin yah.. The South Shall Rise AGAIN!!
The price of Freedom is the willingness to do sudden battle, anywhere, any time and with utter recklessness...

...at home, or abroad.

Offline Brenjen

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Seccession of U.S. states from the union
« Reply #16 on: May 26, 2006, 10:55:51 PM »
By the founding notion & law, the states should have the right to seccede, but the federal govt. will never allow a dissolution of the union again.

Quote
The US government declines, spinning it to look like the "rogue alaskans" kicked them out.


 :confused: All the alaskans that ever lived couldn't kick the federal armed forces out of alaska, but it would make for interesting news footage. I can see Alaska now, filled with carpetbaggers while hawaii, slowly smouldering, slips into the sea.:(

Offline Nash

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Seccession of U.S. states from the union
« Reply #17 on: May 26, 2006, 11:46:22 PM »
See Rule #4, #5
« Last Edit: May 29, 2006, 08:12:30 AM by Skuzzy »

Offline ASTAC

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Seccession of U.S. states from the union
« Reply #18 on: May 27, 2006, 06:16:07 AM »
There has been one sucessful secession. It's called the Conch Republic

http://www.conchrepublic.com/

I've have dual citizenship as An American and a Conch (Though I'm not from the Florida Keys, anyone can be a citizen)

If you read the History..It's quite humorous, but got the result they were looking for when they declared independance.

People have actually sucessfully traveled on the passports.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2006, 06:32:39 AM by ASTAC »
That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety

Offline Leslie

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Seccession of U.S. states from the union
« Reply #19 on: May 27, 2006, 06:30:14 AM »
Are those the guys who attack a Coast Guard cutter by throwing fish at them?  And the Coast Guard plays along?  With water baloons and all?  Saw that on the Discovery Channel or History Channel.  Do you guys print your own money?




Les

Offline ASTAC

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Seccession of U.S. states from the union
« Reply #20 on: May 27, 2006, 06:32:15 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Leslie
Are those the guys who attack a Coast Guard cutter by throwing fish at them?  And the Coast Guard plays along?  With water baloons and all?  Saw that on the Discovery Channel or History Channel.  Do you guys print your own money?




Les


No money as far as I know. They do have a couple of Consulates set up overseas though, and have a Secretary General, and a "Navy"
That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety

Offline Suave

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Seccession of U.S. states from the union
« Reply #21 on: May 27, 2006, 06:47:43 AM »
Hawaii is the only state that I could envision secceding without conflict. Any other state would be an american chechnya.

Offline Leslie

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Seccession of U.S. states from the union
« Reply #22 on: May 27, 2006, 06:53:06 AM »
You should really look into printing your own money.  But other than that...A-OK!!!:D



Les

Offline Jackal1

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Seccession of U.S. states from the union
« Reply #23 on: May 27, 2006, 08:12:41 AM »
See Rule #2, #5
« Last Edit: May 29, 2006, 08:13:32 AM by Skuzzy »
Democracy is two wolves deciding on what to eat. Freedom is a well armed sheep protesting the vote.
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Offline lazs2

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Seccession of U.S. states from the union
« Reply #24 on: May 27, 2006, 10:31:32 AM »
See Rule #4
« Last Edit: May 29, 2006, 08:13:51 AM by Skuzzy »

Offline Brenjen

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Seccession of U.S. states from the union
« Reply #25 on: May 27, 2006, 10:51:45 AM »
Rule #4
« Last Edit: May 27, 2006, 09:41:50 PM by MP3 »

Offline dmf

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Re: Seccession of U.S. states from the union
« Reply #26 on: May 27, 2006, 11:44:42 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Brenjen
How many people here believe a U.S. state would/will ever be released from the Union?

 I say it will never happen. States are states in perpetuity.


Didn't sombody try that already and lose a war?

Offline dmf

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Seccession of U.S. states from the union
« Reply #27 on: May 27, 2006, 11:46:58 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Hangtime
LOL!

the certainty and exubernce of youth.

"THE SOUTH SHALL RISE AGAIN!"

news fer yah, sonny-boy.. last time around the south was beat by industry. Guess where whats left of yer yankee industry is NOW.

;)


Rise again and do what? Same thing as last time,......................please.

Offline Holden McGroin

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Seccession of U.S. states from the union
« Reply #28 on: May 27, 2006, 11:50:51 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Suave
Hawaii is the only state that I could envision secceding without conflict. Any other state would be an american chechnya.


If Puerto Rico can't get a consensus on full independance, I find it hard to believe Hawaii or any state could.
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Offline Debonair

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Seccession of U.S. states from the union
« Reply #29 on: May 27, 2006, 11:56:18 AM »
See Rule #4, #5
« Last Edit: May 29, 2006, 08:14:37 AM by Skuzzy »